Megan Riksen:

Hello and welcome to the Work Like a Laker podcast. I'm Megan Riksen, and today my co-host, Grace Joaquin, and I will be talking about what it's like to pivot from a field where you are once passionate about something and you really want to make a change. So, Grace, I think I know the answer, but you wouldn't really know anything about that, would you?

Grace Joaquin:

I do actually. I originally was going to be a teacher and I was super passionate about kids. Curriculum design. Like I loved my classes, I was so in it. And then I ended up only working in the field for four years before switching to higher ed.

Megan Riksen:

Yeah. So like why, tell us about that shift and how did people take the news when you, when you shared?

Grace Joaquin:

Yeah. It was kind of, it was tough. It was a big decision. And I think, you know, the first year teaching was really hard, but I thought, you know, the first year in anything is hard.

Megan Riksen:

And you hear that especially for teaching.

Grace Joaquin:

Yeah. Which makes sense.

Megan Riksen:

You're getting used to every aspect of it.

Grace Joaquin:

Exactly. And I was teaching sixth grade, which I knew probably wasn't my niche. I preferred kind of lower el. And so then I switched to second grade, which I did like a lot better. I did two years in second grade and I remember feeling pretty. I, I liked it, but feeling very drained. It was, you know, it's a very extroverted job. You're very much on all day and thinking, I don't know if, if ever I want kids, I don't know if I can be a teacher and have kids.

Megan Riksen:

And do that. Yeah.

Grace Joaquin:

Yeah. That just seems like a lot of energy. But I'm like, you know, I'm going to move back to Michigan. I'll try another school district. I liked my old school district, but I was like, you know, maybe things will be different. Who knows. I taught first grade and that was sort of the final nail in the coffin. I was like, you know, I've tried sixth, second and first. And second was probably my sweet spot, but I still felt even there, I still felt very drained at the end of the day.

Megan Riksen:

And four years is enough to know.

Grace Joaquin:

I felt like it was. I felt like I could make that decision and have an informed decision. And I tried two different school districts, multiple grades, and anyway, I felt like I gave it a good effort. And people were, you know, I think it was hard to accept just because I did put, I remember one of my friends saying, okay, but isn't that such a waste of like, you spent so much time and money on getting this degree and certification. But yeah, I,

Megan Riksen:

So yeah. How did that make you feel?

Grace Joaquin:

You know, at first I, well, yeah, I felt a little bit second guessing myself. However, I do feel like now that I'm in the role I have here in the Career Center, everything I've done, I felt like led up to where I'm at. And I still use a lot of my skills today that I gained while being a teacher. So I do not feel like it was a waste. I do feel like it was something that was pivotal to my current career.

Megan Riksen:

Right, right.

Grace Joaquin:

So, Megan, did you ever have a career pivot yourself?

Megan Riksen:

Kind of not, not, not anything like what you had. I basically was a floundering, lost little fishy after undergrad, unsure of what I wanted to do. So I landed in banking and I knew when I took the job, it wasn't going to be a forever situation, but I wasn't sure what I wanted to do. But then I found a program to get my master's degree in higher education, and that just really felt like a better fit. So yes, it was a pivot, but a little bit more, I was just trying to find my way. And use that as my like buffer year to make that happen.

Grace Joaquin:

Not quite like that, passionate, I'm really into this field.

Megan Riksen:

Originally. Right.

Grace Joaquin:

Yes. Okay. Yes. And I do feel like that's probably a more common career move. The one that you made where you're like kind of just sort of in the entry level position. Or a gap year position or something like that unlike the teaching where you go into that field for that specific job or engineering or something like that.

Megan Riksen:

Exactly. Yeah. We actually looked up some details on this, and according to a 2024 article from CNBC, Grace, you were not alone in feeling burnt out as a teacher. That article actually talks about the top five job types for burnout, which are program and project management, healthcare services, community and social services, quality assurance and education. So you made the top five. Congratulations.

Grace Joaquin:

Woohoo. I won... something.

Megan Riksen:

Awesome. So two of these jobs are the pivots that we will be focusing on today. We have two great guests. So in addition to Grace's experience, we are going to hear from another former teacher and also a former physical therapist. Okay. So our first guest is Dave Bengry, who is currently a project coordinator in the IT department here at Grand Valley, and also a former physical therapist. So, hi Dave.

Dave Bengry:

Good morning.

Megan Riksen:

Hi. So good to have you in. Thanks for joining us, and we're excited to talk to you. So can you start with a little bit of your background in physical therapy? Kind of maybe what brought you to that and what you liked most about that work?

Dave Bengry:

Yeah, absolutely. So my whole life I wanted to do something where I was helping people. And I thought initially that that was going to be healthcare. And I knew that I didn't like blood, so I figured I would deal with the people after they've done all of that.

Megan Riksen:

Sure. You're not going to be a nurse, you're not going to be a doctor.

Dave Bengry:

No. I don't wanna clean those kinds of messes. Yeah. So I went into physical therapy. And honestly I really loved it. It was a, it was a great career.

Megan Riksen:

Yeah. How long did you do it for?

Dave Bengry:

So I graduated PT school in 2014, and I left the field in the beginning of 23. So, you know, I was, between school and everything, I was in it for just over 10 years.

Megan Riksen:

Oh wow. And were you in multiple settings throughout that time, or were you just like in, like, just worked for one hospital or did you move around? What did that look like?

Dave Bengry:

Yeah, I, so I did a little bit of everything. It, it afforded me a really cool few career opportunities. So I, outta school, I worked at a local clinic. Out in the Kentwood area. And then I left there to be a travel physical therapist. So, yeah. So I took travel contracts around the country. So I've worked in South Carolina, California, New Mexico. Ended up loving New Mexico, stayed there for about a year and a half, and then moved back to Grand Rapids.

Megan Riksen:

Perfect. Okay. So now tell us what are you doing currently? And if you could kind of compare it a little, how do you, how would you compare the two roles that you have? It sounds like they might be a little different.

Dave Bengry:

Yeah. They're drastically different. Yeah. So right now I am working as a project coordinator in the IT department, and I am specifically attached to the Workday initiative at Grand Valley.

Megan Riksen:

Very familiar.

Dave Bengry:

Yes. Everybody at Grand Valley is. And so it's a, it's a drastic change. I, there are absolutely aspects of it that I love. And there are also aspects of it that I miss from the physical therapy side of things. As a physical therapist, one of the things that was my favorite part was getting to meet new people all of the time. You know, because I would, new patients would come in, I'd get to know them, I'd be with them for four to six weeks and then discharge 'em and send them on their way.

Megan Riksen:

That's a pretty intense period of time. It can be, right?

Dave Bengry:

It can be depending on.

Megan Riksen:

Depending who you're working with.

Dave Bengry:

Depending on why people come into the clinic. And things like that, you know, because I would see people from, you know, anything from, oh, I've got a sore hip, or I rolled my ankle to, I've had my knee replaced, or my rotator cuff repaired. So a variety of different things. Now I do that kind of thing much less. But one of the big reasons I made the change was because the, the work as a physical therapist was very rewarding, but it was also very physically demanding. Because I always worked as a manual therapist, so I did a lot hands-on work. And so it was physically, it was tough. And it was also a job where I had to be at the clinic to be doing the job.

Dave Bengry:

And I knew that ultimately I would like to have a little bit more flexibility. And this all started probably six or seven years ago. In my head. I was like, you know, I'd love to have something where I could work from home. Because we were starting to do some family planning. And you know, wanted to, wanted to make some sort of transition. And so that's one of the, that's one of the big benefits of what I do now, is that I am afforded the ability to work from home most days of the week.

Megan Riksen:

Yeah. That flexibility can come in really handy.

Dave Bengry:

Huge. It's huge.

Megan Riksen:

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. So, talk to us a little bit about some of those concrete steps you took when you realized, I do wanna make this change. I want, you know, this different work environment I am ready for to take this big step. What did you do? You know, was it going back to school? Was it networking? Was it doing side projects first? How, how do you make, because this is a pretty big shift.

Dave Bengry:

Yeah. It's a drastic, it's a drastic shift.

Megan Riksen:

I'm sure there are many transferable skills, however.

Dave Bengry:

Right. And finding out how to apply those is a big, is a big step. So it was not, for me, it was not an overnight process. Okay. I, like I said, I first started to have thoughts about, you know, maybe physical therapy isn't a lifelong career. In probably 2017 was when I first started thinking about that. And I ended up continuing to practice until 2023. So I, I was considering a transition for almost six years.

Megan Riksen:

And COVID in there, I mean...

Dave Bengry:

Yep. COVID was in there. And so I'm a big researcher, so I spent a lot of time looking things up. You know, I found a website that was called the nonclinical pt. because I was like, okay, maybe I can still use my physical therapy degree. And I looked through some of those jobs and none of themseemed really compelling. So for years I would, and it would come and come and go, right? I would, I would have periods where I would be actively researching, really trying to find, okay, what's the next thing. And then I'd get into a little bit of a rhythm and be like, okay, maybe this physical therapy thing isn't so bad. And just kind of swinging back and forth with that. And ultimately I ended up finding a field called UX design. User experience design. And that was the first kind of thing where I was like, oh, that could be interesting. And so I didn't go back to like, formal schooling, but I did take an online bootcamp. So, and it was a 10 month bootcamp.

Megan Riksen:

Oh, so decent, decent amount of time.

Dave Bengry:

Yeah. It was, it was a, it was a long amount of time and I kind of figured that if I went to a bootcamp for 10 months and at the end of 10 months, while also still working full time, I was still interested then that was like, okay, this is kind of, this is the direction I should be going.

Megan Riksen:

Totally. If you can maintain the passion for the new thing while still doign the old thing.

Dave Bengry:

If there was interest, then I could continue. And so I took that bootcamp. And the bootcamp started, it was all after COVID. But I was wrapping it up the same time that I had my second daughter, and when we were buying and selling our house. So we bought a new house, moved and everything. So it was an absolutely chaoticcouple months.

Megan Riksen:

Yep.

Dave Bengry:

At the same time that all of that was happening, the UX field went through a shift and a lot of the junior level positions dried up. And so I had spent this time talking with mentors who were like, oh yeah, the, the field is booming right now. And then the field over, or like the, not overcorrected, it corrected back. And a lot of people I've talked to said it overcorrected. And so now even experienced designers weren't finding work and things like that. So it was kind of demoralizing. because I finished all of that in the summer of 2022. And, you know, had been really excited about this change and then kind of got into a what now? But maybe there's no jobs. And fortunately, you know, physical therapy is a very stable field and there's always going to be work.

Dave Bengry:

I always joke about like, if I wanted to, I could probably find a job within a month as a physical therapist.

Megan Riksen:

You think that quick?

Dave Bengry:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just because there's such a, there's demand. It might not be the job that I'd want, but I could get one. And so that was kind of the big hiccup in my plan, and that's actually why I'm not in that field now. And then the other big thing for me that I was doing kind of consistently was networking.

Megan Riksen:

Okay, yeah. Tell us more about that.

Dave Bengry:

Yeah. And so for me, networking, I didn't, I hadn't quite gotten into like the professional events and things like that, but it was huge within my circle, within my social circle. I was letting everybody know, Hey, I'm looking to do this kind of work.

Megan Riksen:

Just people you already knew, friends you already had.

Dave Bengry:

Yeah. Friends I already knew. I'm like, Hey, do you, do you know of any positions? You know, I'm looking to pivot out of healthcare. Into, you know, ultimately UX design at the time. So anything it, you know.. I figured if I can just get my foot in the door at any job, maybe I can leverage some IT experience down the road. Maybe UX design was in my future, maybe it wasn't, but just kind of anything. And so I was letting family, I was letting friends, anybody know that I was searching and ended up, a good friend of mine was next door neighbors with a project manager here at Grand Valley.

Megan Riksen:

No way.

Dave Bengry:

Yeah.

Megan Riksen:

Oh my gosh.

Dave Bengry:

Yep. Josh Marco, who's the project manager on the Workday initiative. And my, my friend Cade talked to Josh and said, Hey, I have this buddy who's looking for any sort of transition into IT. And at the time Josh was looking for like an admin, just an admin assistant, because his, his tasks were getting to be too much. And so they reached out to me and they're like, Hey, this is only a part-time gig. You know, it's, it's not guaranteed hours. We don't have any timeline on it, but would you be interested in this? And one of the big things that I realized with the career change, because you mentioned like transferable skills and things like that? There are. But one of the things that I found is that I had to check myself mentally because I knew that this was kind of a starting over point. And, you know, so I was going from a, a physical therapy job where I was established, I knew what I was doing, I was making good money and things like that.

Dave Bengry:

I had to kind of mentally prepare myself that if I wanted to make this kind of change, I was going to have to go to the bottom rung of the ladder again. And so after a lot of conversation, I ended up taking that position. And worked, you know, worked quickly to try to learn the system and you know, one of the, the phrases that I saw a lot is that you need to prove your value. And so I worked to really try to do that mm-hmm. And that was in March of 23. And in August they converted my position to a full-time position. Nice. And so I've been working with the project management office since.

Megan Riksen:

Great. Yeah. I think, I think that's good advice to kind of know that you, that transition period is going to be real.

Dave Bengry:

Oh, absolutely. And it's, it's very humbling, but I also think for me it was important to realize that like, yes, I've got transferable skills, but until you are in a job working on your practical skills. You know, job centered skills. There's just going to be a learning curve. You know, and that was one of the, the conversations that I had with my supervisors early on, is what will it take to make this more. You know?

Megan Riksen:

So you were already asking that question.

Dave Bengry:

Yeah. It wasn't right away. But after I had been there for a few weeks, a month or so. And they started talking about the possibility of maybe turning it into a full-time position. That was when I started asking questions like, what, what do I need to do to help this process. You know, what can I do to increase my value? What can I do to like skill up? You know, what ways, you know, can I make myself valuable?

Megan Riksen:

For sure. Great. Well, that's great advice. What other advice would you have for people who are kind of feeling stuck maybe in a really stable career, as you said, like PT and feeling like, can I take this risk? Can I take this leap? What advice would you have for making that happen?

Dave Bengry:

That, that's a good question. And I think, I think if I had to give one piece of advice, and this is something that I'm not good at, like historically, I am such a logic-based thinker, but I think there needs to be a certain amount of trust that you put in yourself. Because I, you know, I said in 2017, I started to think maybe this isn't the career. And it was daunting. It's, you know, it's a scary thing to think about. You know, I went to, I went to school for seven years so long to get my doctorate degree, and now I'm considering stepping away from that. But for, you know, four or five years, it was this thoughtthat lived in the back of my mind. And it just took me some time to really sit with that and like process that out, and frankly, work up the courage. Because it was terrifying for so long. I mean, it was, I was afraid to tell people because what's the perception going to be?

Megan Riksen:

Exactly. What are they going to say? They're going to think you're nuts.

Dave Bengry:

You wanna, you wanna walk away from this, this job that's got stability, security, good pay, benefits, all these things. But ultimately, yeah, after a lot of, I don't know if I like the word or the phrase soul searching, but after a lot of like contemplation I realized - no, I have reasons for wanting this change and I just had to trust myself.

Megan Riksen:

Yes. I think that's excellent. And I actually think that's a great place to end. So thank you so much for coming on here today. We really appreciate your time.

Dave Bengry:

Thanks so much for having me.

Grace Joaquin:

Our next guest is my good friend, Drew Tocco. Drew was in the graduate teacher certification program with me at Grand Valley. First I just want you to tell us a little bit about your background in teaching and then why you chose to make a career pivot.

Drew Tocco:

Yeah, of course. So I was a teacher for 10 years. I got into teaching after I didn't originally start out as a teacher. I worked in non-profit for about a year and a half or so. Working, working at a nonprofit where we worked with families who had children with disabilities and special needs and doing advocacy work for them. And a lot of that work took me into schools. And while I was in the schools was like, well, I would like to be teaching. And so I went back and joined the graduate teacher program and found my job that way. After I graduated, I knew I wanted to move somewhere and I happened to find a job outside of Seattle,Washington. My roommate from college had been in the area and he told me that it was great to live in. So I decided to take a look and I just happened to find a job at a junior high school out that way. And so I started by teaching eighth grade English my first year. And the first five years I taught English, I taught eighth grade and ninth grade English. And then after that a new high school opened in our district and they asked, because I had a background in advertising and public relations, if I wanted to be a marketing teacher. And I thought, that's cool.

Grace Joaquin:

Did you get your undergrad from Grand Valley as well?

Drew Tocco:

I did. My undergrad was in, yeah. Advertising and PR. And then I went back, did an entire English major in two semesters, which I do not recommend. That was 39 credits worth of English classes in over the course of two semesters. That's the most reading and writing I've ever done in a short period of time.

Grace Joaquin:

That is a lot. And I, Drew, I did not know that we have like, almost the same story because I graduated with psych and then went back and did English as well, to get my certification, but I took longer than a year, I believe. So I did not cram it all in. It's surprising we didn't have any -

Drew Tocco:

You were sane.

Grace Joaquin:

I tried, I tried, but I don't know if it worked to stay sane, but okay. So you got your English degree so that you could get your certification and then once you graduated, moved out to Seattle. Well, how long first did you do teaching for before you've pivot? Pivoted?

Drew Tocco:

I taught for 10 years and part of the pivot came just because of burnout. When I was teaching, I was doing a lot of different jobs, and so I was teaching marketing, but I was teaching marketing one and two, usually both in the same period. I was teaching an advertising class. I was teaching a sports marketing class some years, a social media marketing class some years. I was running our student store and teaching a class with that, plus doing all of like the ordering, cleaning and different things that just didn't happen to get done when the students were still there. If, you know, there's only so much time in the period, so much time in the day. But the thing still had to get done in there to keep things running. And then I was also coaching. Coached basketball and baseball.

Drew Tocco:

I was running clubs, especially being the advisor for our DECA club where by the end we had, you know, over around 200 students that were competing in, in DECA on a yearly basis. And so managing all of that and trying to stay on top of grading and stay on top of trainings and stay on top of planning and just doing everything, it, it felt like I just didn't have enough energy. There wasn't enough time in the day of the week. I felt like most of my life was just revolving around teaching. You know, spending eight hours on a Sunday planning, grading and doing things to get ready for the week, which I felt like after 10 years, and even though I had all of my things ready, I shouldn't still be going through and feeling like I'm struggling like a first year teacher. And it felt that way in part just because I didn't feel there was support at the school that I was at at the time from administration for a lot of things. And, and so that kind of just started to wear on me. And at some point I just made the decision for my own mental health that I needed to get away for at least a short period of time. I wasn't sure when I first started making the transition if it would be a long-term one, if it would be a quick, you know, just a year break and then come back. But it has turned into a more extended leave from school.

Grace Joaquin:

Well, that sounds like a lot. And I know I only taught for four years and part of the reason, and I think I had mentioned this on the podcast, but part of the reason why I quit was also because of burnout and thinking if I ever want kids someday, I don't know if I can. I'm too exhausted every day. And I wasn't even doing half the stuff you were, so I can't imagine doing all that. So kudos for you for like noticing how you're feeling though and making a change.

Drew Tocco:

Yeah. I cannot imagine. I do not know how people are full-time teachers and raise kids at the same time. It seems impossible.

Grace Joaquin:

I know, that's exactly what I thought. Obviously some people make it work and it's great, but it just wasn't, I didn't think it would be able to work for me. So but so you've, you've made the switch now and it's been about two years, you said when we were talking earlier. And what are you doing now for work?

Drew Tocco:

Right now I work at a philanthropic foundation and I do operations work, which is the like backend support work and things to make sure that everything runs smoothly within the organization to make sure the people who are out, you know, actually talking to the nonprofits that we fund and the people that we work with, making sure that they have all of like the systems they need to make sure they can follow grants and making sure that we get all of our invoices paid on time, making sure contracts get out to the right people that need to be signing them doing a little bit of it work on the back end supporting staff and whatever sort of needs they have on that end. And it also does things like event helping with event planning and Okay. It, it's just kind of a wide range of tasks that happen in the background that honestly feels a lot like teaching just without a class in front of me.

Grace Joaquin:

Well that's actually, so that's funny. My next question was going to be how is this similar? And I, it sounds like that's, you've already said one way, you know, are, it sounds like you're able to use some of your skills that you gained in your career in this field. Can you tell me more about that?

Drew Tocco:

Oh yeah, for sure. I, I think that a lot of it just comes with like, what, what are you willing to, how are you able to take the things that you do in teaching and just turn it into what the job you're currently doing is. And so, so instead of putting together lesson plans for a class, instead, I might be building trainings for tech tools or things similar to that.

Grace Joaquin:

It's funny because I am doing something kind of similar. So it's, we found, I think roles that I think use our teaching because I feel the same exact way, but in a different way. And I also build trainings for technology and things like that. So it's kind of interesting how our careers have mirrored each other a bit. What advice, so I, the reason we chose to do this podcast topic is because we know that you and I are not the only two people who have chosen a field that they're very passionate about and love. And then down the road find out that, you know what, this is maybe not a good fit for me or is not good for my life right now. Right. And so, what advice would you give to someone looking to make a shift like you did out of a career in education?

Drew Tocco:

I think the first thing is just to have the confidence in yourself that you have skills outside of teaching. I, I do think that that was my biggest hurdle. And from people I've talked to, it's the same sort of feeling that like, this is all I can do. I just know how to teach. I can't do these other jobs. And that's just not true. I mean, all of these other jobs can't do teaching is really what it, what it comes down to. You're, you're, you're doing project management, you are managing people and, and different things. You're able to develop stuff. You're a great communicator. You know, there's so many things that go into teaching and so much that happens on a day-to-day basis where you are just constantly going, going, going, that if you're not able to manage yourself and self-regulate what your work schedule is, which is helpful for especially like remote work and different things. I mean, te teachers have so many skills and I think that we get it in our heads that this is the only one thing we can do when it's so applicable to other places. You know what I mean?

Grace Joaquin:

Yes. I fully agree. I feel like people mention it a lot in my work. Oh, Grace is a teacher, so she can do X, Y, Z. You know, and I think like you, or like, like you said, like a lot of people when I was in the field, I did think like, well, what else can I do? You know, I'm a teacher, that's what I was trained for, but really, yeah, it, the skills that you gain as a teacher can be transferable to so many different fields.

Drew Tocco:

Yeah. And part of the challenge of transitioning from teaching is that I think you probably can relate to this, teacher resumes and teaching interviews are so different from just regular resumes that you send out to another job and interviews that you have at other places. You know what I mean?

Grace Joaquin:

Yes.

Drew Tocco:

And it can be hard to figure out how to first formulate that. So I think using resources like centers that you might have at the school or just friends context, people that you have that work within businesses or fields that you might be interested in, having them look at your resume and give you feedback on how you might change it and identify like, how does this skill transfer to this? How does this skill transfer to this? And figuring out how to word things. I, I think there's a fear of asking for help from other people because they, we think maybe they'll look down on us for it or that, I don't know. We just have this fear a lot of times of, especially with resumes and jobs and interviews and that stuff of going and asking for a lot of help and we shouldn't, that's how things work in the world, unfortunately, is that you have to know people. Right. And you, we should use the resources and things that we have at our, our disposal if they have 'em. So having people look at that and really identifying transferable skills and how you can reword that to fit what you're looking for is a big one. Oh, go ahead.

Grace Joaquin:

I was just going to say, I, well, first of all, I love this sort of plug that you gave our office a little bit because we do help with that. We help current students as well as alumni. But also I think to your point of just asking people you know as well, because I think that that can be such a great wealth of knowledge, especially if you know someone who's in a similar field to what you're trying to get into. Sometimes they might have honestly even better advice than a Career Center if like it's a, if it's a niche industry or something like that. And I do agree with you that I feel like people find it difficult to ask. I know that, you know, looking at resumes is a part of my job and what I've been trained to do. And I always tell people in my life, my friends and stuff like, Hey, I'm happy to look yours over if you ever want. And a lot of people I think, don't take me up on it. And I think, like you were saying, I think it's just a, feels weird almost to ask someone that, you know, in real life to look at your materials. But it shouldn't be in, like, from my perspective, I feel flattered when people ask me to do that. And I'm honored to give any input that I can. So I love that advice. You did mention one other thing about, you mentioned remote and you're, you're working fully remote now, aren't you?

Drew Tocco:

I am, yes.

Grace Joaquin:

Is that, are you liking that compared to, I know a lot of listeners are probably interested in remote work, so how do you like that compared to going into the classroom every day?

Drew Tocco:

It has its pros and cons. I think it would be hard for me to just go into an office and sit in a cubicle or something like that and work every day that way. I don't think I'm built for that. But at the same time, I do miss the social aspect of going into the school and not just, you know, for the students, but during my planning period, which I was always horrible at using. Maybe part of my, maybe part of my burnout. During my planning periods, I would go down, I would talk to the secretaries in the office, I talked to the janitorial staff. I would stop in classrooms with people I was friendly with and you know, I, I would kinda move around and see people. I felt like that was part of the joys of the job was getting to talk to these people each day and see people.

Drew Tocco:

And I kind of don't have that with remote teaching or with remote working, but I do have so much more flexibility now and like I get to work with my cat near me each day, and I love that. And if I am having a, a rough day, I don't have to put on a face for, you know, 180 teenagers and just kind of suffer through it and go through it all. I can have a lot more, you know, self-care that I'm able to do, being able to work remotely. But it is difficult with making sure that you are able to manage your own workload. You know, not having somebody there at all times to kind of let you know what you're doing and where you're going and yeah. What your tasks are. It can be difficult to make that switch, especially moving from teaching where you are so used to like every minute of every day it feels like something is going on. You're just kind of go, go, go until the day is done. And even then you're still kind of feeling that.

Grace Joaquin:

Yes.

Drew Tocco:

The first few months working the job, were kind of a, a culture shock to me. As someone who's had a, you know, I've had a job since I was 13 years old, being unemployed first for a little bit and then switching to a job where I have a lot more freedom with my time and a lot more flexibility around how I can do things. And a lot more trust that the work will just get done. You know, it, it was, it was a little difficult and it definitely, I think reshaped the way that I look at work though, and its importance in our lives, I suppose.

Grace Joaquin:

I love that you mentioned that piece because I do think that that's something that people who work in as a teacher or in a lot of the other fields we talk about with high burnout - social work and healthcare for example, a lot of those jobs are more reactionary where you're like reacting to the day. You know, obviously with teaching you have to be very proactive as well, and you have to plan and things like that. But in the day you're just really like kind of living on the thrill of the moment, I feel like. And the day does go by fast in my opinion as a teacher, but... so the jobs, you know, like that you're describing that you currently have and similar to my role, yeah, you have just a lot of sort of open time that you have to be in charge of yourself and figure out how to spend that time wisely so that you get everything done. And it is a different skill.

Drew Tocco:

Yeah. It definitely takes a little bit of training yourself to, to manage your own time in a different way. And I, I can tell like at the beginning of when I was working there, I would get requests for things that wouldn't really take me a long time and you know, I would knock 'em out right away and people are like, oh wow, I didn't think that I would have this until x, y, z date. And it's, you realize that people aren't working on the same like go, go go speed schedule that you have within the school system. And obviously it depends what field you're going into. If I was in, you know, a finance field or something like that, it might be different, but I'm not.

Grace Joaquin:

So you have some luxury to kind of, if someone asks you something, you can say, well, is there anything else I need to prioritize above this? And you can not be go, go, go like you are as a teacher.

Drew Tocco:

Exactly.

Grace Joaquin:

Well that's great and I'm glad that you have found something that works for you. And I love that piece about being able to, you know, have some self, self care more throughout the day working remote. And I think a lot of the listeners are going to feel good knowing that there are options. I think sometimes being in careers like teaching you can feel a little bit stuck because it is such a direct path from like school to that job. So it's wonderful to hear these stories. So thank you so much for sharing with our podcast.

Drew Tocco:

Of course. And one last thing I'd like to add for that is that there are a lot of people I've talked to in, in a lot of different fields that, that mention like, they like to hire former teachers because teachers do know how to do everything. As you're saying, we have such a wide set of skills, it really just comes down to do you have the confidence to do it and can you find the confidence in yourself to do it and make that leap and change? And can you find ways that you can turn those skills from teaching into what they would be in this other field? Can you find the ways to transfer it into some other way of using them? But the people, the jobs out there wanna hire teachers. Teachers are a, a valuable commodity.

Grace Joaquin:

That is great to hear. I believe it. And I feel like that's very inspiring too, just to have that mentality going into like, looking for new jobs, right? Is having that confidence in yourself. Well, thank you Drew. It was so nice to chat.

Drew Tocco:

Yes, it was great talking to you.

Megan Riksen:

So that wraps up our episode of Work Like a Laker, a huge thanks again to Dave and Drew for sharing their stories and insights. It's really become clear throughout this episode that career pivots while challenging also can open so many doors to new passions and unexpected opportunities. So whether you're feeling burned out, curious about a new field, or simply wondering if your past experiences will still hold value, we hope today's conversation reassures you that change is not only possible, but it's often the beginning of something even better. So, as always, thanks to everyone for listening and we hope you tune in to a future episode soon.