Megan Riksen:

Hello and welcome to the Work Like a Laker podcast. I'm Megan Riksen, and something we hear here in the career center usually from students in STEM or in the sciences, is that they're saying, I want to work in a lab, but what does that really mean? Because a lab can look different depending on your area of study. Laboratories are found in a variety of settings. You can find them in schools, universities, privately owned research institutions, corporate settings, government regulatory or forensic investigation centers, doctors', offices companies that are producing or manufacturing things. So really there are laboratory opportunities kind of across the board in many, many industries. And some majors that might end up in a lab would be cell and molecular biology, biochemistry, medical lab science, chemistry, public health, exercise, science, physics, engineering. This is not an exhaustive list. I could probably continue, but we want to dive into a few of those settings today. So we're going to focus on three common laboratory settings in today's episode. First, we'll do hospital and medical, then research, and then environmental. And again, that also is not an exhaustive list, but just common areas. So tackling number one, medical and hospital. To work in a hospital setting, you typically will need to be a graduate of some sort of professional clinical program and likely hold a profession, professional licensure such as something like medical lab science or histology. So, to help me with this, because this is certainly not my area of expertise, I would like to bring in a guest. Dana Vaughan is a faculty member here at GVSU in the Medical Lab Science program. So welcome to the podcast, Dana.

Dana Vaughan:

Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Megan Riksen:

So glad to have you. So before I jump into some of the questions I have for you, can you just talk a little bit about your role here at Grand Valley and maybe how you even got into that in the first place?

Dana Vaughan:

Yes. So, like you said, I'm faculty. I'm specifically in the medical lab science program, so it's a secondary admit program in the College of Health Professions. I worked as a medical laboratory scientist for about seven years before I made the leap into academia. So I found that I really liked training and just kind of gravitated towards those roles and had some experience in that. And then this opportunity came up at Grand Valley and I was very, very excited to share my expertise and to teach what I learned as an MLS.

Megan Riksen:

Awesome. Yeah. So are you in the classroom mostly in your role? Are you in the lab? Mostly? Tell me about kind of your day to day a little bit.

Dana Vaughan:

Yeah. So I, I personally teach the chemistry side of things. So I teach clinical chemistry, both the lecture and the lab. Nice. that's where I worked specifically prior to Grand Valley. And then I'm also the clinical coordinator, so I help students facilitate those clinical rotations and place them with clinical affiliates.

Megan Riksen:

Great. Awesome. Sounds, sounds like a fun job.

Dana Vaughan:

It's great. I love working with students. I love sharing this profession with people.

Megan Riksen:

The best of both worlds.

Dana Vaughan:

Exactly.

Megan Riksen:

Still getting to do what you love, but also then kind of helping the next generation.

Dana Vaughan:

I know. I feel very lucky.

Megan Riksen:

Awesome. So good. Okay, so school me, I need to know, tell me, what does a medical lab scientist do?

Dana Vaughan:

You know, this is a pretty common question because we're pretty behind the scenes. Yeah. you go to the hospital and you see all those frontline workers, but once your specimen is drawn by phlebotomy who is part of the lab but not an MLS then it kind of disappears and, nobody knows what happens. But it comes to us in the laboratory, medical laboratory scientists. We hold a bachelor's degree and then a certification specifically in MLS. And on a day to day we are working in many different departments. So there's hematology where we're looking at slides of blood. There's chemistry. We're running all the common things that you see like glucose, cholesterol, and a huge array of other tests. Coagulation, microbiology is a big one. We do any of the swabs that you give your doctor, they come to us and we identify what organism you have growing and also what antibiotics work against those. And then it gets very, very specialized. We have molecular flow cytometry. I mean, you can get down quite a rabbit hole

Megan Riksen:

I'm sure. There's gotta be a lot going on there.

Dana Vaughan:

There's yeah. There's a lot that you can do and things to discover exactly as well. Yes. So lots of things that you can do as an MLS but typically our job is behind the scenes. And we are providing providers with the information they need to make diagnosis.

Megan Riksen:

Cool. Great. Yeah. So that leads to my next question. What role does this work actually play in patient treatment in a hospital setting?

Dana Vaughan:

It plays a huge rule. There's a statistic that floats around there. I don't know exactly where it came from. But they say that 70% of decision making of physicians is based on lab results.

Megan Riksen:

Wow.

Dana Vaughan:

So, we are providing them with lots of information what the diagnosis is based on those test results. Sometimes how treatment is working, is it, so monitoring diseases ruling things out. So it's really helpful information for any provider.

Megan Riksen:

Absolutely. Cool.

Dana Vaughan:

Or patient.

Megan Riksen:

Well, yeah. Thank you. Yeah, would be very helpful when you're trying to figure something out. Awesome. So the hospital setting is one setting. Do you find medical lab scientists elsewhere in the workplace or typically hospitals?

Dana Vaughan:

Absolutelty. So of, I'd say most of our graduates work in a hospital setting. At least for a while. Within the hospital, there's other areas that you can go to as far as it, so there's a lot of laboratory information and it getting into patient's charts. So that's an important aspect of it. Infection prevention, admin managers. But outside of the hospital, we also see MLS in research. You can see them in industries, what we call it. So all the analyzers and things that we work with are highly specialized. So they love the people that have worked with them to work for those companies. So in sales, field service engineers. And then outside of that we even find MLS in things as niche as like beer and wine. You don't think about it, but there's a lot of chemistry and microbiology testing that goes into those. So they love that degree. You're exposed to all of that. And then understand like the regulations of testing. Helpful in lots of industries.

Megan Riksen:

Big time. Nice. All right. And then my last question is, can you just tell us a little bit more about the MLS program here at Grand Valley? I assume this is more of a program that students don't necessarily come in as freshmen thinking they want to do this. So how do students find this? Tell me about the program.

Dana Vaughan:

Exactly. We, we always call it a program of discovery because exactly like you said, people don't know about it. And we're kind of like hiding on the health campus downtown too. So out in Allendale, it's not something you see a lot about. We're considered a secondary admit program, so you have to apply to the program. That usually happens in the middle of March. And then we, we have our students, they have a very heavy emphasis in science, of course. So we do have like a GPA standard of 2.8. So both your overall and then your science courses, 2.8. So that's kind of getting into the program. But as far as what we do in the program, once you are in, we start in the winter, you have three semesters of what we call didactic courses. So those are all professional courses aimed exactly at those departments that I described earlier. So we cover all the things that you'll, all the testing you'll do as an MLS. And then in your last semester, which it would be the last winter semester, you do your clinical internship. So 18 weeks in a clinical setting. We assign students, we have many affiliates in the area like Corewell, Health Metro, well that's U of M Health West now. They're all changing names, but, so we have lots of clinical affiliates in the area and then outside the area as well where we send students to intern in the lab in all the departments they learned about for 18 weeks.

Megan Riksen:

Is that typically a... In fully replacing them taking courses during those 18 weeks?

Dana Vaughan:

Yes, yep. So they are, they're full-time interns. They take rotation exams and we're, I oversee all of that as the clinical coordinator and then they're also taking their capstone course. So doing a little research project related to what work they're doing in their clinics.

Megan Riksen:

Awesome. So very applied. You're really kind of, learning some skills.

Dana Vaughan:

Yeah, you learn everything in our program, then you immerse yourself in it before you have to graduate and work in one of those settings.

Megan Riksen:

Yeah. Perfect. Awesome. Yeah. Well that was enlightening.

Dana Vaughan:

Well,, great. I'm happy to share. I'm excited. I hope that people hear this and learn about this program because We have so many students that come with a general science degree not realizing that they need this specialized degree in certification to work in a hospital. So that's an important point.

Megan Riksen:

Awesome. Yeah. And we'll make sure to link to the program and some of the information you've mentioned.

Dana Vaughan:

Thank you. You can find lots there as well.

Megan Riksen:

Great. Awesome. Well thank you so much for being here.

Dana Vaughan:

Thank you for having me.

Megan Riksen:

All right. So now let's move on to our next area of lab work, which is in research. Some of the common majors that support research typically tend to be cell and molecular biology, chemistry, biology, sometimes biomedical science. And we have lots of Grand Valley alums working in a variety of areas. So this could be cancer research, clinical trials, vaccine development, stem cell therapies, forensic genomics, water and food safety. These are all areas of research that there could be a component where you're working in a lab. And to help us discuss this particular area, I would now like to bring in Meagan Eggebeen, who is a GV alum and also currently a research scientist at Amway. So welcome Meagan. Thanks for being here. So why don't you just start by giving us a little bit of your background, kind of what your academic path was like, what kind of brought you to the position at Amway, all that good stuff.

Meagan Eggebeen:

Yeah. So I got my bachelor's in chemistry from Grand Valley.

Megan Riksen:

Okay, great.

Meagan Eggebeen:

Back in 2010 I think. Honestly, when I graduated I kind of had no idea how to get a job. And so I was just kind of trying to look online, see where I could apply and I ended up getting connected with a contract company. And so they were able to then take my resume and any positions that had come to them that fit my background, they could take my resume and send it in. And one of those positions happened to be at Amway. I've learned since, a lot of Amway's kind of entry level careers, they do that through a contract agency.

Megan Riksen:

Okay. So that's a common -

Meagan Eggebeen:

Yes. Yep.So I worked at Amway through the contract agency. When I first started, I worked in our quality control chemistry lab at that point. Mm-Hmm. And it was kind of nice because, you know, I got to learn all about the company. I got to kind of develop some of those lab skills as working in industry is a little bit different than the labs you take in school.

Megan Riksen:

Yeah, I was going to ask that. Probably feels quite different.

Meagan Eggebeen:

Yes. I mean there's definitely stuff that you learned. In your classes, in the labs that are applicable. But then you have to learn all of their test procedures, all of their training, all of their specifics instruments are likely different than what we have here. Got it. So it was nice to kind of have that entry and then I could show, you know, my boss at the time, what my work ethic was, what my knowledge was. And then luckily in a couple months they had a full-time position open up. Oh great. And so I got offered that. So when I first started there, I was on second shift in our quality control lab. I kind of worked there for a little bit. I moved to a first shift, kind of moved up to the ranks. Yep. Learned everything. I was in our quality lab for about seven years-ish. During that time I kind of learned what the analytical research and development group was at Amway and I was like, oh man, that sounds really fun. And that sounds like something that I'd wanna do. But it was more competitive. They didn't have any spots, as many spots open, and so in I think 2015 I decided that I was going to go back to school.

Megan Riksen:

Oh, okay.

Meagan Eggebeen:

Yeah. So Amway does tuition assistance. So I went and got my master's in analytical chemistry from the Illinois Institute of Technology. And I did it all online and I had to go once into campus for my presentation, but it was super beneficial for me. I knew I was done with school after my bachelor's, and I think that like, you know, years in between it really, I really appreciated grad school, Did really well. It was, they have a lot of programs obviously while you're a full-time working person to kind -

Megan Riksen:

Fits in your schedule.

Meagan Eggebeen:

Yeah. So then before I was done with that, I, a spot had opened up in the analytical research and development group and I was lucky to get offered that position. So then I've been there since 2018, I think.

Megan Riksen:

Awesome. I think that's cool to hear that you had success in your career with the bachelor's and then were kind of able to decide later on like, oh I think this master's degree would help move me. Yes. More into the area that I really could see myself maybe more long term.

Meagan Eggebeen:

Yeah. There's definitely a wide variety I think of degrees because, I mean, we have PhDs who work with us of course, but then of course you don't necessarily need to have that.

Megan Riksen:

Cool.

Meagan Eggebeen:

But it is, it's nice that they help with tuition.

Megan Riksen:

Yes. That is some of those really nice perks that employers can offer. If you can swing it, that's amazing. Great. Okay. So talk to me about your current role now as a research scientist. Yeah, I'm just kind of curious about the whole thing. So bring me through like what, what you do and then maybe like a typical day even I think would be fun to hear.

Meagan Eggebeen:

So Amway is an international direct sales consumer goods company. We make a super wide variety of products.

Megan Riksen:

You really do.

Meagan Eggebeen:

Yes. So toothpaste, personal care cosmetics, we have a large dietary supplement brand. We do air purifiers, water purifiers, laundry detergent. So it's very just wide portfolio. So it's not ever boring. I feel.

Megan Riksen:

I bet. Yeah.

Meagan Eggebeen:

You see something new all the time. So my group, the analytical r and d chemistry group, we're kind of unique in that we are involved in like the whole lifespan of a product. We are involved in the upfront when they are kind of looking for new ingredients to put in new products, a lot of times they'll get something and send to us and ask us to test it. And then we are heavily involved when there is a new product that is being developed and you have to make sure that it's safe for the consumer. We have to make sure that the active ingredient in it is in it at the level that it is. So we will develop test methods to test the individual, the product, and then we will validate them and ensure that they're good to go. And then we'll transfer them to our quality labs so that when that product launches and in in production, that they can test it before it gets out to the consumer to again ensure every lot is safe. So that's probably like the biggest part of what we do. We're also involved in some of the post-launch activities. So we do stability testing to kind of help prove the shelf life for products to make sure. So we'll have products that they keep for four years. And they send to us at different intervals and we test to make sure that it's still at the level it's supposed to be. And then we also have a group who helps with different investigations. So whether that's like a customer complaint, anytime a customer complains, we will pull whatever they complained about, we'll ask them for the sample, we'll try to investigate potentially what had happened. There is also, unfortunately, kind of a wide counterfeit. In some other countries. A lot of people try to counterfeit our products and so of course somebody buys it, thinks it's ours, gets upset. And so we'll try to make sure that, you know, we can, it's different and then we'll talk to 'em about it and try to stop wherever that counterfeiting comes from. So it's, I mean, just a wide variety. I do very normal chemistry testing. I do all of the gas chromatography in our whole lab. I do lica chromatography. We have ICP, all the wet chemistry. We have a micro lab in our lab also. And then we have a bioassay lab that's connected to us as well. So a lot of different tests that can happen. Me, on a normal day, I will usually work on, I have a few projects that are products that we'll launch next year. And so right now we're doing all of the testing the products to make sure everything's safe. And then working on developing test methods for those. So like today I went in and did a safety test on the level of alcohol in one of our raw ingredients. Yeah, because you know, you don't want a ton in there. So I do that test, make sure that it's below the certain level. I go to meetings occasionally if I have to.

Megan Riksen:

Do you feel like you're collaborating a lot with the people in your, who you work in the lab with?

Meagan Eggebeen:

Yes. Our, I mean we, our group is pretty great in that sense, and that we all kind of work together if there's ever an issue. And then all of our project teams, we have lots of projects and lots of teams. And it's kind of interesting because I mean, I think most of my teams, half of our people are in our California office. So that is, I think really helps strengthen that collaboration skills. Because it can be hard. We try to get out there every once in a while, you know, to kind of meet in person face to face, but that's not possible all the time. So a lot of making connections with people in other groups and communication skills involved.

Megan Riksen:

Awesome. Great. Yeah, I mean, I do not have anything near a chemistry background, but you're like selling me on this. That sounded fun.

Meagan Eggebeen:

Honestly, I have always, when I was in college and was in the lab, I'm like, this is what I wanna do. And, you know, some people go into lab careers and then wanna be in management and I'm like, no, I, I'll like train people to work in the, I just really love working in the lab. Like doing the, the science.

Megan Riksen:

Yeah. I love it. Awesome. Okay. So maybe now you can share a little bit of advice you might have for students who are interested in getting into a career with research. So yeah, just any advice you have, any best practices, things you've seen colleagues do, how they made it to where they are, any of that'd be so helpful?

Meagan Eggebeen:

So I have found from my years of work, I feel like making connections is really important. I think LinkedIn has been a very helpful tool. I've had people reach out to me just from seeing that I work at Amway. Seeing the chemists at Amway and asking if they could just chat with me. We are more than willing to have somebody come in and do a job shadow or a tour, and I think a lot of, you know, I know a lot of people at other similar companies in West Michigan and I think they're all similar. So I think finding somebody on LinkedIn or if you know somebody through you know, I know a couple of my colleagues teach labs here also currently. So if you know somebody like that reaching out and asking, Hey, can I come shadow you? Can I come take a tour? And just kind of getting that really will help, you know, make those connections and then see if it's really what you wanna do.

Megan Riksen:

That's great advice. I mean, it's, it's amazing. Yeah. We've been doing this podcast for years now and it does just always come back to kind of those two things. Like get to know people who are doing the things you want to do and then get some experience. Either observing them or trying to do it yourself. That's great. Awesome. did you find that faculty here at Grand Valley were a helpful resource for you? Or would you recommend reaching out to faculty?

Meagan Eggebeen:

I think yes, now. So we still have, like I know at Amway, we have connections with the faculty here now. And they know us to reach out to in our group. So I think that at least for Amway and Grand Valley, we have those connections and that it would be something that you could definitely do. And a lot of times if we're looking for somebody, an entry level job, a lot of times we'll reach out to the chemistry group here, because we know a lot of my colleagues are from Grand Valley. We know the kind of skills that we can get from here.

Megan Riksen:

Awesome. Great. Good deal. Well, I think that's all the questions I have for you. So thank you so much for being here. Really appreciate it.

Meagan Eggebeen:

IAbsolutely. It was fun.

Megan Riksen:

Alright, so now let's move on to our last area of focus. And this would be working in a lab within an environmental context or with an environmental focus. So to help us with this one, I am going to bring in Sara Brown. Sara is currently the project manager at Michigan Department of Environment, Great Lakes and Energy. She has also been a laboratory analyst for Muskegon County Waste Water Management System, President of Muskegon County Environmental Coordinating Council. She's been a sustainability coordinator and even faculty here at GVSU. So Sara, can you begin by telling us about your background and how it led to lab work?

Sara Brown:

I graduated, graduated from GVSU with a degree in Natural Resources Management. A lot of the required courses and classes that I took for that degree included a lecture with a lab. So a lot of the classes I took had a lab portion. And so, you know, a lot of the, the courses and experience I acquired during that time included lab work and a lot of research components to that. So that helped a lot. It helped to prepare me to work in a you know, research lab and you know, doing outside work and other kind of research and whatnot.

Megan Riksen:

Great. Yeah, it's really good to see the connection between your time at Grand Valley and then how that translates into the workplace. All right. Next question. Are there other majors that could lead to environmental lab work?

Sara Brown:

I feel like there are a lot of different types of sciences that initiate, like eventually could lead you into the environmental lab work type lab. Any, it, it almost seems like any kind of science background, if you've worked in a lab, almost any kind of lab, you could kind of understand the environmental lab. It's, it's a lot of similarities can overlap. You know, you're working with different types of lab equipment, you know, you have to calibrate them, you know, you have to follow standard operating procedures, you know, you have to log everything, you know, you have to do everything exactly as expected every single time. And, you know, there's just procedures you have to follow. So pretty much every lab is going to be like that. So a lot of that kind of work is going to be the same anywhere you go. So a lot of majors that include any kind of science background will have, you know, similar expectations for, for that kind of lab work.

Megan Riksen:

Yeah. Sounds like the major can really be pretty flexible, which I think is, is great about working in a lab. All right. Next question. Do you have any advice for students about ways to get relevant experience outside of the classroom?

Sara Brown:

I would say for, for my experience in particular, even during my time at Grand Valley, I was reaching out to my professors who I liked working with and just asking if they had any need for any kind of help, you know, if they had any, I knew a few of my professors had grants that they were working on different research projects, so I just reached out to them and I asked them if, you know, they were in need of any help with their research projects. My, my capstone project was working with other master's students and helping them with their projects. So then I, it kind of, I kind of made my own project o off of their project. So it was, it was kind of fun. It was a way to get to know other students and professors and learn about what they were doing and then use kind of their, their materials and their, their information and, and kind of do my own thing and get my own experience as well. So it's good to, to reach out to people in your field and do what you can to do, you know, make as many connections and network as much as possible. That's, that's, I think that's the best way is just really reach out to your professors, you know, work really hard while you're in their class. So, so they'll wanna work with you obviously, but, you know, do your best to reach out to them, you know, go out of your way and really, you know, give them their, your resume. Let them know what you're interested in, let them know that you're willing to help, you know, with whatever they're doing on their own projects or if they have any master's students or students who need extra, you know, field help or anything, you know, in the field that you'd be willing to help with that kind of work. So I think that helped out a lot. When I worked for Grand Valley, there was a postdoc who had a, a project going on, so I was able to help her with her project as well. So it's just, it's really fun learning about different projects. So it just gives you a lot of experience and it's, it, it's really helpful for your resume, but it's also just fun to do if you're really passionate about science and doing research projects. It's, it's really fun to do. And being outside can't beat that.

Megan Riksen:

All right. I think that's really good advice. It is always good to maintain healthy relationships with faculty because you never know where those relationships can lead. So, good to hear that that all worked out well for you. And finally, last question. Is there anything else you want to share with students?

Sara Brown:

I would say working in a lab environment, well, focusing on the environment, I guess you could say. There's a lot of outdoor work. So if you're not one who likes to work out in the elements, I would not advise working in an a laboratory environment that deals with, you know, outdoor data collection or, you know, sampling and whatnot. When I worked in those different labs, there were a lot of different types of weather and, you know, we just, there was one lab I worked in at Grand Valley when I, when I worked for Grand Valley. We would go out during storm events, so it'd be out, we would be out in all hours of the night whenever a big storm event would happen. And we would be out in the middle of the storm to collect stream data. So we needed to be out there during the entire storm to, to collect the, the stream data during the storm while the storm was happening, and then when the storm would go away. So there were, you know, we were out in all different types of weather. And then during my time at the wastewater treatment plant, you know, not everybody can stomach that kind surrounding, you know, we would have to put our little, you know, 10 foot aluminum boat. We would have to launch it into the, the wastewater lagoons and take samples from the middle of, you know, the huge wastewater lagoons. But I loved, I love being outside and I love you know, not being at a desk all the time. So knowing that all that work is going to something bigger and, and benefiting the environment and everyone in it, it's, it makes you feel good. So we're all doing our piece to help the environment. So hopefully, you know, people will see that or feel that way and and wanna do that with their career as well.

Megan Riksen:

All right. Well thank you so much. It was so good to hear about your passion, and it sounds like this work really is meaningful and making a difference, and that's really great to hear. So thank you so much, Sara, for sharing all of that with us, and hopefully to all of our listeners, digging into a few of these areas of lab work was really helpful to kind of go behind the curtain a little bit about all the ways that you might be able to work in a lab, maybe you saw yourself in a space that you hadn't considered before. So thank you so much to everyone for listening, and we hope you tune into a future episode soon.