Megan Riksen:

Hello and welcome to the Work Like a Laker podcast. I'm Megan Riksen, and today we have a super fun episode because we get to talk to a couple of local employers who are going to share their advice and tips and trends as it relates to today's job market, which I just find is so valuable to hear it directly from the people who do the hiring. So, I am joined today by Lisa Zimmerman, who is the HR manager from the John Ball Zoo, and Jared Curley, who's the director of Talent Management with Mary Free Bed. So thank you both for being here.

Jared Curley:

Thank you for having us.

Lisa Zimmerman:

Thank you.

Megan Riksen:

All right. So I'm just gonna kind of have you start by introducing yourselves and then giving an overview of your organization. So Lisa, do you wanna kick us off?

Lisa Zimmerman:

Hi. Thank you so much for having me. My name's Lisa and I was not a Laker, so I'm so sorry about that!

Megan Riksen:

That's okay, we allow non Lakers on the podcast.

Lisa Zimmerman:

Okay, good. I went to Aquinas College up the street from here. And I got a degree in HR, but my love and passion has always been animals and conservation, and I knew in my heart of hearts that I'd somehow end up back at the John Ball Zoo as actually started as a teen volunteer there. And I just knew I had to go back. So I worked a couple different jobs. I worked in HR for about nine years, and then I knew I had to go and the heavens just aligned. And next thing I knew, I was hired in as a generalist. And I've been there now two years, and now I'm the HR manager. John Ball Zoo is a pinnacle point in Grand Rapids. It is an excellent, phenomenal midsize to small zoo, but we still have about over a thousand animals, 200 plus different species.

Megan Riksen:

I mean, I've been there, but I guess I never really took the time to think about it.

Lisa Zimmerman:

When you think about it only count every cockroach and you count every fish. The numbers do go a little bit higher.

Lisa Zimmerman:

But it's a really incredible zoo that I've got to be a part of for the last 20 plus years because it's just been so amazing. But as a manager, I am in charge of hiring all the seasonals. So we hire about 400 plus seasonals every single season to run our zoo, essentially. We have, our season is a much bigger than just a summer season. Our season runs March through November, and we're only closed to the general public for about three months out of the year. That's the only time we don't need seasonals, so, a good chunk of the seasonal is considering we still have events, rentals, and weddings that still happen up at our best tree house. So I'm in charge of all the seasonals, making sure they're happy and healthy in their position. I do all the orientations, I do all the hiring for them and help them and the seasonal managers to make sure that they are all in their positions. And I help with all the engagement that they need because if you're working at the zoo, you probably love animals as much as I do. And so I wanna make sure that there's different opportunities for all kinds of seasonals to get to experience those animals up close and personally. So I really take a lot of passion in that as well.

Megan Riksen:

Awesome. Cool. Thanks. What about you, Jared?

Jared Curley:

Yeah, so Lisa and I share some similarities, which is fun to hear. The difference here is I'm a GVSU Laker and I loved my time out in Allendale and I graduated in 2012 with so a little bit different here, clinical exercise science degree. Which brought me to Mary Free Bed and I landed an internship with our human resources department as our health and wellness promotion intern. And that was just the right internship at the right semester to graduate and make my parents happy and keep things moving and all the right stuff. And I have to pinch myself at how fortunate I was to land at an employer that I did not realize just how fantastic they were. I grew up on the other side of the state.

Jared Curley:

Fell in love with Grand Valley, fell in love with Grand Rapids and found much of my passion and my core values were really represented at Mary Free Bed and that's the big thing is the people the fertile soil the growth mindset the safe space. And everything that I've been able to realize over my almost 11 years with Mary Free Bed has been just exceptional. So individually I work on a team that focuses on how do we bring and grow talent at Mary Free Bed. The data on that is about a thousand individuals a year that we touch into promotions or new roles internally for staff or bringing new people to Mary Free Bed system.

Jared Curley:

Mary Free Bed as a business, we are in five states. We have 2,500 employees. We serve about 4,000 team members through management agreements at partner hospitals, and we have a laser focus in rehabilitation.

Jared Curley:

So one of the things that I was just so passionate about is our customers who we serve are individuals that are at a point of need like no other and they've had major changes to their life, their functional abilities, their potential outlook and our mission statement of restoring hope and freedom is something that really resonates with me and I've felt in a big way and been just super passionate to be able to see how do we connect with individuals that feel the same way, and want the same things, and to continue to grow the system of Mary Free Bed, which will be the trend over the next 10 years. So we'll be in new states and new partners and a lot of things.

Megan Riksen:

So Cool. Yeah. We came as a career center to visit your facility, as you know, and yeah, I was blown away by the growth. Really cool. It's just the network of where you are now. Yeah. It's pretty incredible.

Jared Curley:

We've had a part in our dust sign up, basically my entire 11 years but I'm always reassured because the end product is so much better than our starting point. And the same is true right now. We're building out our sixth floor here in our Grand Rapids campus to be able to serve 28 additional patients at a single time. And we're also building, which is very exciting, the Joan's Secchia Children's Center for rehab, and it's just a fantastic. $70 million project to be able to be the only rehab hospital for kids in the state of Michigan.

Megan Riksen:

Gosh, I'm so lucky. That's so cool!

Jared Curley:

Something like a dozen surrounding states as well, so amazing, amazing specialty care.

Megan Riksen:

Great! I'm excited! We have two great employers here. You guys have great organizations and I like to see the longevity. It really speaks to that you do truly value your time there.

Lisa Zimmerman:

Did you see the combination of the John Ball Zoo and Mary Free Bed that just we announced?

Jared Curley:

I did, yeah.

Lisa Zimmerman:

With that, where Mary Free Bed helped us with one of our flamingos who had a her leg, they created a custom mini and of course pink brace for our flamingo. It was really awesome. So you guys were just at our Pink Flamingo day and representing there. And it was really awesome to see that collaboration with different community organizations together and it was so cool. You got to check out the article. It's really awesome.

Megan Riksen:

I definitely will. I'm glad it was pink, like that seems appropriate. Oh, yeah. Obviously appropriate.

Jared Curley:

Yeah. The area I've learned the most about in our operation. Is our orthotics and prosthetics space. Because that's something coming out of high school, it's like, you know, okay. I feel like what a nurse does, a physical therapist, everybody has their family physician, so you have some of these landmark clinical roles but unless you have a specific need, you might not ever go to an orthotist or a prosthetist. And the ability to help in these unique ways is pretty fun.

Megan Riksen:

Cool! I bet you don't serve a ton of animals, typically.

Jared Curley:

No. Pretty rare. Yeah. Most people know that there was a dolphin down in Florida that had the prosthetic tail. They made into a Disney movie.

Megan Riksen:

How did I miss this guys? I really need to catch up on my animal news.

Jared Curley:

Yeah. That was the big one that came out maybe a decade or so ago but yeah, that's pretty awesome for us to be able to collaborate in that way,

Megan Riksen:

So. Cool. That was really cool. Nice. Okay, so let's jump into, you know, some of my harder hitting questions here. And we'll start with you this time, Jared, when you're looking to hire, what can students do to help themselves to stand out in a competitive job market?

Jared Curley:

Certainly there, there are some tricks and the, the big thing that I would say is connection is key. So connections to the organization, the mission, having a really succinct way. The conversations that stand out to me for an individual who is maybe more green in their seniority and has a lot of opportunity. Is I'm reaching out to you as an employer because of this reason and being very specific and my search is not just casting the widest net possible and I'll jump at the first opportunity, even though that might feel like what we're doing. Having done your research and having built a connection into understanding the mission of the business and why that resonates with you, and making connections on LinkedIn and trying to build a little bit of familiarity and partnership with some maybe key landmark individuals within the business.

Jared Curley:

And what I found is people like to share, right? So if they have a young professional reaching out and saying, Hey, how do I learn more? How do I partner? How do I collaborate? That could be in a formal way. Like a volunteer role, like Lisa shared as volunteering at the zoo. And that's something that we have at Mary Free Bed, or through an internship. We run a great summer internship program, and we've taken about 10 or dozen students every summer, and we're able to then have them made as a, you know, the next hire, the next great Mary Free Bed team member. So trying to find ways to collaborate and build that foundation for the next step. So, having that that why is the big one though is like, oh, yeah, I don't remember applying to you and now I'm talking to you and what's the job again?

Megan Riksen:

It doesn't feel great. Yeah.

Jared Curley:

It's a little bit of tumultuous footing to be in.

Megan Riksen:

Totally, not a good starting point. Okay. Yeah. What about you, Lisa?

Lisa Zimmerman:

Well, for a lot of our seasonal based positions we pretty much take almost anything. As long as you are willing to fill out an application, you show up on time, you have a job, essentially. When we have jobs available, when it comes to our year round position there's no such thing as bad experience. The more experience that you have, the more that you've shown that you've gotten involved with conservation, with education, with animals, A lot of people are like, oh, I love animals. I wanna work with animals. It's like, what experience do you have? Like, well, I've taken care of my dog. Great. You need more than that. You need to, you need to show up, you need to show that you really are taking this seriously. We have so many volunteer opportunities. We have so many seasonal based positions that have moved into other roles in our zoo because they wanted to work in animal care.

Lisa Zimmerman:

They started out in food and beverage, and they work their way up because they're there. They're getting the experience, they're getting the knowledge, they're getting the know how. So there's no such thing as bad experience. If there's an opportunity to volunteer, take those. That's what we wanna see on resumes, is that kind of experience. And then I can't stress enough how important the why is the, the passion. The importance of that. It, you say it's hard to write in a resume. It's not. You can see that passion in there. You can see what someone cares about and how they care about it. In a resume right there and that's really, really important, especially with a, with a nonprofit like us.

Megan Riksen:

Yeah, for sure. So I'm glad you brought up resume, because that's actually my next question. And why don't I just stick with you here, Lisa, but how important are is the actual resume in your role in your work and what do you want to see on them?

Lisa Zimmerman:

Yeah, like I said, it's that experience. You can't have enough on there. Put all in every volunteer opportunity that you had. When I applied for my job, I still put on there that I was a teen volunteer at the zoo it was over 10 plus years old but it still was important to show that I had been at the zoo, that I know the zoo, that I get the zoo, and that shows my passion. So it might not feel like it's relevant, but it's so important, especially for the positions that I'm hiring for when it comes to our seasonal based positions, like I said anything we'll do as long as you are taking the time to fill out that application. Their taking the time to create that resume and then just doing that double check. I know that there are systems out there, there is AI out there that helps you create and does it for you, but it is doing that double check. You'd be surprised how many spelling errors, how many little issues that you see, or that we can tell that someone didn't take that double check and that goes right into, this person does not care about that double check. They do not have that attention to detail. And almost every position that we have from food and beverage to zookeeping to the veterinarian staff, attention to detail is very, very important.

Megan Riksen:

It's got to be right? You're dealing with animals' lives.

Lisa Zimmerman:

Exactly. Or just our guests. We wanna make sure our guests have an incredible experience, and so we want people to have that attention to detail. So really doing that double check always is really important in a resume as well.

Megan Riksen:

Awesome. Yeah. Any other thoughts there?

Jared Curley:

Yeah. The amount of resumes I've seen with the last employer referenced in the cover letter or the word I'm really interested to join, not your company.

Megan Riksen:

So cringe, it hurts.

Jared Curley:

Right. It's one of those things that at least you can do that and feeling the ownership and excitement come through when we're, you know, talking to younger professionals, we can anticipate some of the same landmark events and examples that will be brought forward. But how you frame out your experience and what you know, where you're going and what you're excited for versus, oh, I haven't done 10 years of X, Y, and Z, but I want to be, and this is the problem I can solve for you as anybody who's posting a position has a need. Right? So being able to say, oh, I will answer that need, and I will also be focused and be empowered and be energetic and all the fun things. And thankfully our team has been supported at Mary Free Bed to still have that human approach.

Jared Curley:

So it's one of those things that there is a human that takes a look at every applicant and every resume and It's one of the the points of pride for us is we don't just take the first 20 in the last 20 or, you know, have some sort of system that looks for keywords. Like we want to see the human on the other side of that cover letter or resume and then we want to talk to you and we want to route you to the best fit within our organization.

Megan Riksen:

That makes sense. What, do you think cover letters are pretty important in your role? Do you typically like to see them.

Jared Curley:

yeah. It, it tells a great story of and you know, the why and your potential connection. And at Mary Free Bed, it's never lost on me, the community support when I wear my Mary Free Bed gear out into buying something for my wife the other day, and the cashier was like, oh, you helped my neighbor's son after a spinal cord injury diving accident. And you know how great you guys are, right? And it's when those types of stories come through and the cover letter or it just helps to find your why, right? Which is, you can be a great nutrition service representative or patient service representative, but when you're there for the mission and you feel connected to it in a big way, that's a sign of longevity and success and a great hire.

Megan Riksen:

So really taking a look at what look like, look deeper even than the job posting itself. Right? Like, what really are those things that are calling me about this role.

Lisa Zimmerman:

There's a choice employer, like people apply to the John Balls Zoo all the time and what sets you apart as a cover letter. To show that passion, to show that right there and then, because that's what we're reading for, especially for our smaller base positions. Like our conservation team, it's a team of like four or five, and we hire out. And so we have a lot of applications that come in, and so a cover letter really sets you apart and those kind of things. Same with our zookeeper jobs, zookeepers apply all over the nation. Then zookeeper aids, we have all kinds of different experience, so the cover letter really sets you apart in that sense.

Megan Riksen:

Cool.

Jared Curley:

Yeah. Something I look for is as, so I touched on Mary Free Bed's mission statement, and something I bring up to all of our hires coming into the organization is the question of do you have a personal mission statement? And I think that cover letter is a great place to be able to put, it's almost like, oh, my objective for why I'm applying to this role or, you know, why am I on the hunt? But the, you know, getting back to your core values and what is like, what mission am I here to be able to connect into and the larger organizational mission and what's your true north, basically.

Megan Riksen:

Yeah. Cool. Great advice. Awesome. All right. So let's talk about when a candidate kind of gets to that amazing stage of you actually get an interview with someone. What do you think can make a candidate positively stand out in that interview situation? And Lisa, I'll start with you.

Lisa Zimmerman:

Yeah. When it comes to interviews, it's just about being honest and being true to yourself. If you are writing in your cover letter about how much passion you have and how much you care about the mission, and how you have your own mission statement and all of this, then I wanna see that when you come in as well and interviews can be very scary. They can be very intimidating, but I'm not scared and I just wanna have a conversation with you. If you're gonna be a part of one of my coworkers, I wanna be able to have a conversation with you. I wanna be able to have a flow. I wanna talk and I wanna kind of joke and I wanna laugh, and then I wanna like go through and get to know you better on a different level because a lot of the time my managers are there to make sure that they have the knowledge.

Lisa Zimmerman:

I'm there to make sure that you're a culture fit. Yeah. And the way I'm making sure that you're a culture fit is that you're getting along with me. We are bouncing ideas off each other. I am asking you questions, I'm getting to know you. So being that true and authentic self is so, so important in an interview. And then being that true and authentic self, but also being able to articulate what you're good at and what the problem you can solve is, like you said there are, the reason that we posted the job is 'cause we have a need and so how can you help fill that need? And it's so important to be able to articulate that. So knowing that going in and then also just being true and authentic to your own self is so important.

Megan Riksen:

Yeah. I love that. Yeah. No faking, you don't have to.

Jared Curley:

You don't have to. Just let's chat, let's talk it through.

Megan Riksen:

And in the Career Center, we, we love to talk with students about that because it's like, yeah, we need you to learn how to talk about yourself in a way that's truthful, but like, yeah, you can pat yourself in the back.

Lisa Zimmerman:

Sometimes I feel like we're closer to the age. If I needed to hire a robot, I could.

Megan Riksen:

Totally at this point. Like, we're getting close!

Lisa Zimmerman:

Exactly. So if I needed a robot, I'd hire one. I don't want a robot. I want a real human. I want someone who can chat and goof and like It's totally okay if you pronounce a word wrong or you're like, I can't remember what year I graduated. Like, it's totally fine. You're like, oh, we look it up. It's right here on your resume. Like, it's totally fine. Be human.

Megan Riksen:

That's a really good point. Making mistakes like that or is not a.

Lisa Zimmerman:

Literally, I'm not being, I'm not writing things out like, whoa, how dare you. No, never.

Megan Riksen:

Cool. Yeah.

Jared Curley:

Yeah. The truth of the position is super important. And I think that's a great thing for a candidate to consider is the two way streets of an interview Is who am I and what do I want and how do I help? And then the employer side, what is the position and how will you impact our mission? And who will you collaborate with in any great interview is a fact finding mission. So I think about a successful candidate coming into that process, being prepared so part of that is knowing my why and my elevator pitch and how will I help? And, and then having done research and having the best interview ends with 10 or 15 minutes of the interviewer asking, okay, what questions do you have for us? And then the candidate opens up their portfolio and there's the 20 that you would've already written out.

Jared Curley:

Right? And there, to me, it doesn't matter what questions they ask as much as this individual has prepared to ask these questions so they're being considerate of the opportunity and they're not just going to say, oh yeah, I feel good. I, you know, I got the answers that I was looking for, and let me know if you wanna hire me or not. And I'll, I'll just keep it moving. I wanna hire the person that has options and is being considerate of their choice and is gonna say, okay, what's the right fit? And who are my key collaborators and what will success look like and how will I know after 90 days I'm doing a great job and all of these things that you could Google the, you know, the two five interview question follow up.

Megan Riksen:

I would say AI is actually a great tool for like brainstorming questions.

Jared Curley:

A hundred percent

Jared Curley:

Because it'll be that beginning of the thread that you'll start to pull on and sometimes the best candidate dialogue I've had is in that last 10 or 15 minutes. So we make sure that we always reserve that space. And when the candidate says, nah, I'm good, boom, deflated time.

Megan Riksen:

You're missing out on 15 or 20 minutes of time!

Jared Curley:

Oftentimes, we at Mary Free bed, we have a, a multistage interview process where the second interview is always a peer team, so it's gonna be key collaborators that we've reserved their time and you've got an amazing group together to be able to say like, pick their brain. Right. And we wanna do effective introductions in that interview, so you know, Hey, these are the questions you can ask me and this is where you wanna dig back in on. And again, how do we tell the truth of what we have to offer and what you're gonna be getting into, because that truth will be a predictor of long term success. And we never sell a Cadillac. And you show up and there's day one, there's a Toyota sitting there and you're like, wait a minute. I wanted the Cadillac. Why is, you know, Corolla's a great car, but if you paint the picture that's not accurate, then you're not gonna have long longevity, which is the goal.

Megan Riksen:

Right. And I think yeah, your point to the questions, bringing that your authentic self to asking real genuine questions. I find that students they really struggle with what am I even gonna ask? And yeah, we can have AI help us and things like that, but ultimately, like, what do you really wanna know? What do you need to know?

Lisa Zimmerman:

As much as I want you to be a fit for my company, it's more, far more important that you think that my company's a good fit for you. So what are you looking for in a company? I ask that every single interview. I think it's a really important question to make sure that you understand what you're looking for. You're like, oh. And like the way that they answer that is so important to ensure that they are just as good a fit for me as I am for them. Yeah. That two way street

Megan Riksen:

Perfect. Awesome. Okay, so I think we've actually arrived at our last question. So I'm gonna ask, what advice would you give to your college self when it comes to learning about the world of work and the job search process? Jared, do you wanna take that one first?

Jared Curley:

Sure I'll jump in. Yeah. So to go back in time and the the most important thing is to I equate things to sports. Yeah. So being a jock, it's like, okay, how do you become a, a three point expert? Is you have to shoot a ton of three pointers and getting shots up is the biggest thing in life. And building some awareness and consistency and being able to pick up the phone and make a call or do an outreach or try to explore. And by the hundredth time you do it, it'll be better and you'll have learned and you'll know what you're looking for and whatever you're doing. So the the opportunity to engage trying to find mentorship and partnership and collaboration around whatever community you find yourself in. Super important and it's amazing how small the world is in reality. Right. It's I'm sure we all share many mutual connections that if we started pulling...

Megan Riksen:

We could play that bingo.

Jared Curley:

And life is a lot of what, you know, and it's also a lot of who you know, and starting that process earlier on is a great target.

Megan Riksen:

And it doesn't mean you have to have a million family connections or something like that. These are things you can forge on your own

Jared Curley:

Oh, certainly. Yeah. People want to help. It's amazing when students reach out to our leaders and the Mary Free Bed community. Folks are very giving. Yeah. And we are only in a position of knowledge because we've made the thousand mistakes that a younger self hasn't made yet. So that's where, you know, if I were to say like, Hey, go out and make those mistakes and you'll learn, and that's how you develop and grow, understanding and volunteer, do an internship, connect with as many places as possible, interview with as many organizations that you might be interested in is I was given advice even during my time at Mary Free Bed as you should be interviewing at least once a year and that came from my mentor, our chief operating officer, Bruce Brasser.

Megan Riksen:

That's amazing!

Jared Curley:

Go outside the organization and see it will be a centering process to know what is it that Jared wants, what is it that resonates with me still and when that position that comes open, that is the, I've got to have it type position. You don't wanna be looking in the rear view window and saying oh, I haven't interviewed in five years. And it's a muscle that you need to develop and build and be comfortable with and if you're staying fresh, it's a much better position to be in. So getting the reps up and having that process be, you know, a focus for, okay, I wanna have as many interactions as possible.

Lisa Zimmerman:

I love that. All right. If I'm talking to my college self first thing I have to say, first congratulations Lisa, you got a job at the zoo. Like that Lisa is so excited. I can tell that's all she cares about. So she might not listen to the rest of this advice. But I definitely thought that money was the most important. I thought that I wanted big old paychecks. I wanted to live a big old life. And I can tell you right now, the most important thing is having coworkers that believe and feel and love you as much as you love them. It's so, so important to love and care about the people that you work with and to have an incredible team. There is nothing like it. There is nothing like people who care about animals as much as I did. I do.

Lisa Zimmerman:

I didn't think it was possible in my other positions. And then I working here at the zoo that it's just such a powerful thing to work with people that care about the same things that you do and how important that is. And also that there is no such thing as company loyalty, there is only loyalty to yourself. So if you find something better, if you do those interviews and you find, hey, this is a better fit for me. Hey, this is what works best for me. That's totally okay. That company wants you to go to that place because that works out better for you. The company that you're currently in, you are like, well, I can't leave them because of this, this, and this they need me. I promise you, you're replaceable, we can replace you and we can find someone who wants to fit in that position better, because soon as you decide that you belong somewhere else, trust me, all of your work falters at your current company.

Lisa Zimmerman:

Soon as you find that place that makes sense for you, or you're like, this isn't working for me anymore, do things that make you happy. Because trust me, the current company feels that if you are not happy in it, that is my job, is to make sure that you are happy and healthy in your position because I want you to love coming to the zoo as much as I love coming to the zoo and so, as soon as those people that don't feel that anymore and like, let's figure it out. Let's, you need to be honest and true to yourself. Do not feel like you have an obligation to that company. Do not feel like that. Do, do what's best for you. And that will always end up being the best choice for the company as well, I promise. So I think both of those are very important advice that I would give to myself.

Lisa Zimmerman:

But she didn't hear it. Like I said, she's just excited about the zoo. That's great. She's just excited. Yeah.

Megan Riksen:

Yeah. Oh, that's so good. Would you echo that too, in terms of like the people you're working with and like the culture? I feel like it's, it's so important.

Jared Curley:

Yes certainly the the amount of time you spend at work and collaborating with your team and leaders. And if you that's, you know, going back to the story of why do I care about Mary Free Bed, or why do I care about the mission and having that personal connection, why that's so meaningful and a candidate is because they're there for the right reason and they're going to have an even keel and an approach that is centered to the days that get challenging as they do anywhere.

Megan Riksen:

Of course.

Jared Curley:

The big picture. Why are we here? And that's what I found, you know, thinking my internship at Mary Free Bed, I found exceptional individuals that were willing to invest in somebody that got in the way more than he was helping. And maybe that's still the case. It's, it's the right stuff that you're looking for is who do you get to interact with and the mission you get to support and yeah. That's the, the big thing and then the rest is just upside. Right. You got to be able to pay the bills and have a, rewards package. That makes sense andhHealth coverage and all the things and that's part of, you know, getting in and getting experience and seeing what's fair in the world and yeah. Increasing your likelihood of success with knowing what's the right target.

Megan Riksen:

Awesome. All right. Well, thank you both so much. So many good themes we hit today about job searching and interviews and resumes and yeah I feel like the being true to yourself and just lots of good nuggets. So thank you, Lisa. Thank you, Jared. All right. And thank you so much to all of our listeners for tuning in, and we hope you tune into a future episode soon.