Megan Riksen:

Hello and welcome to the Work Like a Laker podcast. I'm Megan Riksen. And today I again have both my co-host joining. Hi, Brian. Hi, Megan. And hello, Grace. Hi Megan. Glad we're all together again. And yeah, today we're, we're talking about a topic, I'm not gonna call it fun, because really the, the, a topic is not fun. But you know, think about how we all have bad Mondays, right? We all have challenging weeks even a whole month, a whole year. Shoot. We just, you know, COVID right. Like we know what some months on end of, of some not so great stuff feels like. But when it comes to your career, sometimes it, it, you know, it can feel like the cyclical nature of a career. Like sometimes things feel good. Sometimes they feel bad. However, you're, you know, you're typically able to make it through a bad Monday. You can survive that challenging week. Maybe you learn some lessons from a longer period of time, but you're kind able to bounce back. But that's not what we're really talking about today.

Brian Bossick:

Right today, we're talking about it's Sunday night and you find yourself sing to the Bangles song Manic Monday, right? You're wishing it was Sunday because every time you hit Monday, your stomach feels weird. You're not sure you really want to go to work. And you know, as Megan said, sometimes that is completely normal, but then other times we wanna pay attention to that angst. Right. We wanna understand what's it telling us. And maybe sometimes it's telling us that something isn't right.

Grace Pushman:

My very first job I had that experience because my first job I was 14. Well after babysitting and I was 14 and I was working in a bookstore, which if you know me, that is the perfect job for me. I live in bookstores. Perfect. Yes. Yes. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> I was so excited to get that job. But I found myself getting stomach aches the day before a shift like I would, I would dread going in. I did not feel excited to go in. I felt like I was constantly messing up something wrong again. I was 14. I only was there for a few months. So during those few months, when I was there on the job, again, as a 14 year old, my managers would talk bad about each other. They would talk bad about past employees who were also teenage girls who had worked there.

Grace Pushman:

They would refer to their, the last employee as "stupid" and talk about mistakes she had made. And then of course, no surprise to anyone after a few months on the job, they let me go because I asked too many questions. So, and again, I'd only been there a few months and I was still in that training process, but they wanted someone who could, I think, do the level of an adult supervisor mm-hmm <affirmative>. And I just remember thinking, talking to my mom and saying, I didn't realize adults talked that way. I didn't realize that adult adults would speak. I mean, now, now as an adult, I know that's not true. Right. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> but I was 14. I thought only teenagers or like kids spoke bad about people like that. I had no idea that adults behave that way. And what I wanna say is that they shouldn't like right. Like, especially in a workplace. So even though that that does happen, it shouldn't, but that's my example. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> I, unfortunately very first job was definitely what I would consider a toxic workplace.

Megan Riksen:

Yes. Sounds like it.

Brian Bossick:

Yeah, absolutely. It gets me thinking about gosh, a student I met with not too long ago who excited to have his first job after graduation graduation and started that went for his very first week, met with the supervisor, started the process of learning what the job was about. Then the supervisor went on vacation for a week without a whole lot of clear instructions on kind of what to do next, but that person kept working and trying to do things. The supervisor got back after about a week gone and then was just livid with the, the student because not enough got done, but there weren't clear expectations. There wasn't a clear message of what you should be working on. And then you add to this, that shortly after that supervisor gets back they call the student at, I think, 6:30 in the morning and the had left their cell phone upstairs was downstairs eating breakfast, getting ready for the day, called their, their supervisor back. And the person said, look, anytime that you cannot be available for me, you need to mark it on your calendar. So if you're eating, if you're sleeping, if you're gonna go work, gosh. Right. And you just think about that lack of balance and that constant out

Megan Riksen:

Outside of kind of the work hours. Absolutely. Still needing to account for that. And having that

Grace Pushman:

Control. That's just very controlling. <Laugh> mm-hmm <affirmative> it is.

Brian Bossick:

It is. And you know, when we talk about the word toxic, like you start to get a sense from these examples, what that means.

Megan Riksen:

For sure. And I have an example when I was in college, I worked at a restaurant kind of one of fast casual places and had just a really terrible boss who would make inappropriate comments would invite myself and other women to his residence to quote unquote help with events he was doing. Right. So we just wanted to throw that example out as well, that there's toxic bad coworkers, bad bosses, but this might be a beyond toxic. Yeah. Right, right. Going into harassment, you know, very inappropriate, unacceptable behavior. So there is a difference mm-hmm <affirmative> and we're gonna focus kind of on, on the, the toxic, but not, you really need to report someone right now. Yeah.

Grace Pushman:

Type of examples, and that's valid too. Like there are gonna be, you might all run into situations where you do just need to report. Right. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> and so that's not, again, like Megan said, that's not really what we're talking about today, but it can happen and just know that you're not alone of that happens.

Megan Riksen:

Like, of course that's toxic. Yes. But yeah, we're, we're not going quite to that level in this conversation today.

Grace Pushman:

Well, so that brings us to 10 you're in a toxic workplace. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> and I'm gonna go over the first three, the first one is that you wake up every day wanting to quit. And I know that Brian mentioned what is it called? The Sunday scaries.

Megan Riksen:

Yeah. The Sunday scaries.

Grace Pushman:

And yes. I don't know if you mentioned it, but we talked about it earlier where, you know, you at dread, you feel, maybe you're getting a stomachache when it's time for you to go into work. And you're just thinking about quitting and I have kind of a dark example that when I was in a job that I was really unhappy in and it was a toxic environment, not the bookstore job, but a different one. I would go into work and I remember one day it was super foggy out. I was driving to work and I remember just the, oh, maybe I'll get an accident. And I can just spend the day at the hospital.

Megan Riksen:

<Laugh> yeah. That is real dark Grace.

Grace Pushman:

And it was like, it's just a thought that popped into my head. And then right after I was like, oh, I should probably quit. Yeah.

Megan Riksen:

This doesn't seem right anymore.

New Speaker:

Yeah. So, I mean, again, you're not alone. If that happens to you. I know a lot of people who have felt that way about jobs and I, we just, that's not normal. You don't have like, yes. A job is a job. And like Megan said, some days you don't wanna go in on a Monday. Some days I just wanna watch Netflix all day. That's normal. Right. But if you're feeling that level, mm-hmm <affirmative>, if you're feeling that sense of dread, that's not normal and you don't have to, you shouldn't have to feel that way.

Megan Riksen:

Yes. It's not just, Ugh. I have to go to work tomorrow, but it's Ugh. I have to face X number of things at work.

Grace Pushman:

Exactly. Yeah. Tomorrow. Yeah. Yeah. number two is your input isn't valued. So if you feel like, you know, when you try to share your ideas you're constantly being talked over or people are not really giving you kind of the respect and, and the time that you in your workplace, that's a sign of a toxic workplace you want it's like, and that leads us into communication. It's kind of like, they're not listening to you. Right. And you're not feeling heard. And then our number three is actually a lack of communication, which that can mean a variety of things. And I, I apologize cause I forget the study, but I did just read a study that said that 40% of toxic workplace issue revolve around communication issues. Yeah. And so that could be something like a lack of transparency. Maybe you, don't kind of like with Brian's example maybe you don't know what the expectations are in your job, so maybe it's your first week on the job. And if your supervisor hasn't said, Hey, here are some expectations. That's a lack of communication. That's not a great workplace setting to be in. So you have great communication with not only your supervisors, but your coworkers as well. Get good feedback, ask for feedback, be able to ask questions that was, you know, like I said, part of the reason why I got in trouble was I asked too many and mm-hmm <affirmative> you, you should feel like you can ask questions when you're at your workplace.

Megan Riksen:

Absolutely. Without any repercussions. So another sign is just, you start noticing that the morale is super low. Nobody's excited to be there. It's not just you having a bad day. It's everybody isn't really having very much fun at work. The morale is not great. Along with that, you know, it could mean that some gossip or rumors are flying about. Maybe cliques exist, where there really is a sense of like an in group outgroup mm-hmm <affirmative> you're starting to feel excluded. Also, you know, those are really good signs to <laugh> to be aware of really bad signs. Yes. Yes.

Grace Pushman:

And it's, it can be more common than you would think.

Megan Riksen:

Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely. Not having enough people around to do the work is another sign. So if you're finding that everybody just gets piled on with work and seems like shouldn't, we have a few more people working on this project with us and that could then lead to higher burnout rates because people are leaving because they're overworked and just can't handle it anymore. It's another sign and unmotivated coworkers kind of goes hand in hand with the low morale, but you know, if you're looking around and nobody seems to be excited and motivated to do good work, that's that's not a very fun environment to be in either. No, absolutely.

Brian Bossick:

And then number eight is unreasonable high expectations that can't be met. So let's say that you do feel it's understaffed and you you're gonna have busy weeks of course, but you go from 40 hour, weeks to 50 hour, to consistently 65 hours or more a week. And at some point there's no way to be successful with that. And then you get the burnout. So just paying attention if those expectations are,

Megan Riksen:

Or even like requiring like deadlines. Yes. There's like always an urgency. Oh, that's good. Yes. That you just, you know, doesn't need to be there, but you know, your boss or someone is, you know, putting these crazy timelines right together. That really aren't necessary.

Brian Bossick:

Yeah. And thinking about how you thrive or don't thrive on those situations. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> right. So if you're someone that loves that awesome. But if you're not, that's gonna take a beating. So totally agree. Yep. Number nine, your boundaries aren't respected. So when you think about even the example from before, let's say, Hey, I'm going to get up and get cleaned up and eat breakfast. And people are calling. People are calling at 5:00 AM at 2:00 AM or they're not respecting the work day is done. You constantly feel on call. You don't, you can't set boundaries, and the ones that you've set are ignored. That's a warning sign.

Grace Pushman:

And I'm gonna add to that too. I think nowadays too, with social media, there's a whole other level to boundaries that being respected that's so yeah. Keep that in mind when you start work that you might want to really think about who you're adding to your social media, because I've had really great experiences where my coworkers are, my Facebook friends, my Instagram friends, and they're wonderful. And I love seeing their family pictures and everything. And then I've had other experiences where I've had my coworkers not behave appropriately and not respect boundaries with the social media. So just be aware of that and be careful about how you interact with your coworkers and your supervisors on social media.

Brian Bossick:

Great point. Great, great point. And then number 10 is just a lack of work life balance. So if you find that with your work and with everything that you, you can't leave it behind, or those boundaries aren't being respected and you don't work becomes 99% of your identity, then that may be assigned to that. This is a toxic workplace mm-hmm <affirmative>. So we've gone through, I, I believe 10 signs of a toxic workplace, and we're starting to think now, okay, this is, you've noticed this, but then the question is, what do you do? And where do you go from here? And we wanna segue into that. So we can talk to you about what's those next steps to help you.

Grace Pushman:

All right. So first of all, when thinking about our coworkers, you know, Megan mentioned that sign of potentially having some coworkers who got, who are cliquey. And so one way to avoid this is don't stoop to a toxic colleague's level. So, and honestly it's harder than it sounds because I think one way that people like to bond is they want to bond with you by talking bad about someone else.

Megan Riksen:

Venting about all the things that are going wrong.

Grace Pushman:

Person. Yeah. And again, as the 14 year old, I learned that adults do it too. And they sure do. And you know, it is something that I think it's kind of almost a natural thing, but you do wanna be wary of that. So if you have a coworker who's constantly either talking bad about everyone else, constantly complaining, do your best to politely excuse yourself from those conversations. I know that, you know, I used to be a teacher and a lot of people will talk a about like the lunch room where you wanna avoid like the teacher's lounge, because people are talking bad about students. And I didn't always experience that. However, if you have a space like that in your office or in your workplace, maybe just avoid going there. Mm-Hmm, <affirmative> when there's a high volume of people, when you know that people are going to be saying a lot of negative comments. And then on the flip side of that, maybe try to seek out positive coworkers. So who is that person who's always looking on the bright side of things who doesn't seem to have anything bad to say about anyone that's, who you might want to try to buddy up with and collaborate with and, and spend more time with. And I think there is at least one of these people in almost every workplace you can find. So yeah. Be on the lookout for that. And that

Megan Riksen:

Even just that one person could help to change your outlook. Yes. Maybe you won't stay in this job forever if all the other elements are still toxic, but can help you get through some tough situations to have kind of a buddy. Exactly. Absolutely.

Brian Bossick:

Well, and speaking of a buddy and also finding ways to like reduce stress our third tip is find a way to leave your work stress at the door and de-stress outside of work so that when you are leaving, if you're walking to your car, the minute you get in your car, maybe in your head, that is your imaginary safe space. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>, mm-hmm <affirmative> right. You get in there, you close your door, you put on the radio, book, whatever you're doing, that's your kind of new safe space. So how do you cut that off and then, tied into that find ways to relieve stress outside of work. So maybe for yourself, that's I don't check email for work after a certain time mm-hmm <affirmative> or I don't have that connected to my phone, or these are the nights I go out and have dinner with friends. So that you've gotta balance that you start to see.

Grace Pushman:

Yes. And I think with that, everyone is different. Like what your own balance is. I know for me, when I was a teacher, I would work until, you know, six or seven, everyone else would leave. But then when I went home, I didn't do any grading. Didn't do any work because my home was my sanctuary. Other teachers maybe would come in early or do you know, work at home after like a certain time at night. So find what works for you.

Brian Bossick:

That's a great point. Yeah. And it really is dependent on that environment and find, I like that. Good suggestion. And then our next one, number four is build trust. And this really helps, especially if you've got a supervisor who likes to know what's going on mm-hmm <affirmative> right. And so this is some tips, we've got three tips to kind of help you do that. Number one anticipate their needs. As you get to know them, learn the culture, learn what they're looking for from you and think about like, how do I kind of figure that out ahead of time? Mm-Hmm <affirmative> in the very beginning, it's really helpful to give more information than less. So let's say, I know when we transitioned to kind of remote work here, mm-hmm <affirmative>, it was hard to know what we all were doing. So sometimes like you may check in with your boss, like, Hey, here's the next three days here. What's what I'm gonna do. And, or at the end of the week, here's what I did this week. But check in, give them information and as best you can kind of adjust to some of those expectations so that you two are kind of flowing on that same path. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>

Megan Riksen:

Great. So if you feel like you can have a conversation with the leadership in your office, in your work environment whatever that is about some of these issues that you might be facing and, and you think you will not face retaliation then going to the person who might be causing some of the issues could be a really good idea, but we would rec we would recommend practicing yeah. Your confrontation. Right. Cause we can get a little tongue tied. I think mm-hmm <affirmative>, especially if you're not someone who's super comfortable with confrontation, which I know I'm not mm-hmm <affirmative> I would definitely want to, you know, maybe write down some bullet points yeah. Of what I was gonna say. You know, kind of practice that monologue in my head, or even out loud to a friend just to say, am I making sense? You know, do these, are these talking points going to actually help me here? So yeah, having that practice, I think you'll feel a lot more empowered to go to the person who's maybe the cause of some of that toxicity. Yeah.

Grace Pushman:

And that takes a lot of bravery, but mm-hmm <affirmative> I think if you practice, it might help with those nerves a little bit. Absolutely.

Megan Riksen:

At least then, you know, you, you took some action. You, you did something about it. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> and then if you're still met with all the yuckiness, okay. Then, then maybe it is time to, to move on. So that would be our, our last kind of tip here is maybe, maybe you need to change your job. Yeah. Mm-hmm <affirmative> maybe that means leaving the company or organization where you're at. Maybe it means changing departments. Sometimes you at the micro level, things can be really toxic. You have a terrible supervisor or the small team you work on just isn't great. But things might be okay in another area, you could always look for those sorts of opportunities as well. When those really unsolvable toxic situations come up.

Grace Pushman:

And I know a lot of companies will do exit surveys. Yeah. That that's like, if you do have to leave a place because of these reasons, I would highly recommend to, to put why on your exit survey so that they can learn what was going on that caused you to leave because hopefully that will prompt them to do better in the future. Right.

Megan Riksen:

And you know, most organizations will have some sort of neutral party, like, like a human resources mm-hmm <affirmative> office where either you're, you're letting them know as Grace said, or maybe that's a good first step before you leave as well. Do I have any options? Mm-Hmm <affirmative> I have tried all these other things. I've confronted the people I need to confront and nothing's changing, maybe try HR. Right.

Brian Bossick:

And that's what they're there for. Right? Like, so they can be to coach you through that. Absolutely. Right. So we've hit you with a lot. So the idea here, being that as you, if you're starting to notice some of these symptoms and as we're starting to talk about some tips you can take, don't let all this just sit in your head. If you're noticing this is happening, talk to somebody, talk to your friends, family, loved ones, talk it out, see if they can help you make sense of what what's happening. And then also might what you wanna do you next mm-hmm <affirmative>. Cause I think that will make it similar to that conversation. Megan talked about, get it out, get it on paper, practice it, help it become concrete and make senses. So you know how you wanna move forward.

Megan Riksen:

Absolutely. Thanks, Brian. Good. Okay. Well hopefully we've left you with, hopefully you're not all sitting there listening and thinking about how toxic your work environment is. I hope that's a small percentage of you, but I know we all, I mean, as we've all expressed in this podcast, you're likely gonna encounter one at some point, unfortunately. Yeah. It just is kind of the way of the world. So yeah, definitely reach out, reach out for help and, and try to tackle some of these tips as well. So great. Thank you so much to everyone for listening and we hope you tune in to a future episode soon.