(Transition music)

Carlos Martinez (02:12):

Good morning, Good afternoon, Good evening. And welcome back to another episode of Work like a Laker podcast. We actually have two guests today. First would be Michael Wallace, who's the senior district business director at Pfizer and Hannah Stall, who's a talent acquisition partner at Open Systems Technology. And then of course, we're also joined by-

 

Megan Riksen (02:35):

Megan Riksen, I’m here again.

 

Carlos Martinez (02:36):

Our fellow Advisor from the Career Center. Michael, Hannah, do you maybe want to share a little bit about what it is that you do in your role? We gave the fancy title. Maybe you could make it plain for the listeners.

 

Michael Wallace (02:48):

Sure. I'll go first. Appreciate the opportunity to be here. Thank you very much for the invite. And just in terms of my role as a District Business Director, I have responsibility for in our pharmaceutical prescription Drug Avenue. And with that being the case, I have 10 direct reports and those 10 direct reports cover the entire State of Michigan with the exception of the greater Detroit area and down river and the thumb. So, everybody knows this beautiful State of Michigan. We even go across the beautiful bridge; the Mackinaw bridge up to the. U.P (Upper Peninsula).

 

 

Megan Riksen (3:20):

Oh, nice. Yeah. Just one person get like the whole UP?

 

Michael Wallace (3:23):

One person has the whole UP with the exception of Marquette, which is covered out of Wisconsin.

 

Carlos Martinez (03:31):

Yeah, we did something similar. I used to work in Admissions. My territory was the thumbnail, so I didn't get to see as many fun things as you did, but I loved it. I got to meet some real nice people. Yeah.

 

Michael Wallace (03:40):

And I do love my job, so, yeah.

Hannah Staal (03:43):

Well, I'm Hannah, so excited to be here. I am the Talent Acquisition partner for OST. We're a technology consultancy in downtown Grand Rapids on the West side. And in my role, I'm able to find and hire top talent for our teams and all of our Departments from Technical to Marketing and Sales. And I also manage our Internship Program.

 

Megan Riksen (04:09):

Awesome. And you're an alum of Grand Valley?

 

Hannah Staal (4:10):

I am. I’m a Laker for a Lifetime.

 

Michael Wallace (4:17):

I'm a Laker for a Lifetime in my heart because my son just graduated.

 

Carlos Martinez (4:20):

Congrats to him. So, you know, just to get right into it, our, our topic today, the point of conversation would be all about Professionalism, right? It's such a, such a vague word, but also when you talk to an employer, each employer has a very specific idea of what that means to them. Right?

I, I, if you go to work with some corporate bankers, you can expect to see some suits. If you go to a, a young startup, maybe it's just some slacks and a polo, right? So, and this is to either one of you.  What do you think about when you think about professionalism? If a student were to ask you what does it mean to be professional?

Hannah Staal (05:00):

I'll take this one. Well at OST we are a jeans type of culture so you won't find anyone in a suit. So for us it's more so how you carry yourself. It's mannerisms. It's are you on time, are you present? And it's, are you punctual and also your attitude.

So, if you're positive and eager then to us that is Professionalism.

Carlos Martinez (05:27):

And I'll just build on that. Our culture is drastically different. As you can sense today. I'm in a suit that on no can hear me and see me, but at the end of the day, I'm Pfizer's very structured and professionalism to us is about the skills, the behaviors, the capabilities that you can demonstrate and exhibit on a day to day basis as well as your presence. Just the air about you.

And last but not least is of course, how well you do your job. Professionalism is your ability to execute and perform your daily tasks. That's expected of you. So that's professionalism and Pfizer

Carlos Martinez (06:04):

And. Overall, right. And of course, we're not, we're not going to call out specific needs, but overall it could be within your place of employment or just what you see in society. Do you get the sense that students are coming out of college professionally prepared?

 

Michael Wallace (06:23):

I'll start first. I think it's a mixed bag. I've had the pleasure of hiring some students directly out of college and I think it's their life experiences. So, if they've had some, what I consider real world experiences while they've been going to college and having some experiences interacting with other professionals, I think they come better prepared to perform the job within Pfizer.

But at the same time, I have found even those students that I've hired directly out of school, they're a little more challenged because there's a lot of autonomy in our job. So the representatives that report to me, they're going out each morning at 8:00 a.m. in the morning calling on doctors and covering a geographical area.

So ultimately there's the freedom to go do your job and you determine your own destiny on how well you perform. So it means if you can work eight to five or you could work less hours, which one would hope would not be the case. So, some are very professionally prepared and it's how well they use their resources around them and some of the steps they've taken to prepare themselves for real world.

 

 

 

Megan Riksen (07:26):

So that's, I mean, that's a tricky job, especially if you're jumping right out of college into a role with that much freedom where you aren't reporting into an office.

 

Michael Wallace (07:35):

I agree a hundred percent.

 

Megan Riksen (07:38):

That requires, yeah, that's a high level of Professionalism.

 

Michael Wallace (07:43):

And there's no time clock, so they're not checking in and at the end of the day, what they're doing is really performing a job where they have total freedom to do what they want in a given day.

So, it is a little more challenging. And even those that I've hired have indicated they wanted to have a little more direction on the front end. And so I've learned from that. And now of course I'm providing a little more directive behavior with them.

 

Megan Riksen (08:05):

Here's the thing.

 

Michael Wallace (08:07):

Yeah, good to do. Good to do, get up, go out and work all day and come home.

 

Carlos Martinez (08:11):

And I think one important thing would also be, and you kind of mentioned that in passing would be, you said utilize the resource available to you.

 

Michael Wallace (08:17):

Absolutely.

 

Carlos Martinez (08:19):

When you're new to accompany there, there will be someone there to kind of guide you or so when you can relay information questions or concerns about any sort of standards or company culture that you know you might not be sure on at the moment.

 

Michael Wallace (08:33):

Yeah, I agree with you. And there's, there's plenty of resources within Pfizer. We have plenty of colleague resource groups for different groups and different individuals to find. But ultimately, it's the role of the manager and the leader in the organization to help lay that groundwork for them. But it is a steep learning curve, at least in Pfizer. Not sure what it is for Hannah and her world-

 

Megan Riksen (08:55)

Especially for interns. I’d be curious.

 

Hannah Staal (08:57):

Yeah, I feel that we've seen some really well-prepared students come in in the past few years, which has been really exciting. We've only had one or two cases where it isn't that, but it can be such a culture shock for them to go from such a structured environment to something unstructured, and I think that one of the things they can do is constantly ask for feedback because we see that our interns come in with that can do attitude, that willingness to learn that eagerness and we love that, but that need for feedback will really help them as we help them grow and learn and kind of develop themselves in a more professional culture.

Carlos Martinez (09:37):

And you know, when considering what professionalism means to the companies that some of you who are listening are exploring some that, that that goes hand in hand with the question of fit. Is this company the right fit for you as a, as a potential employee? I enjoy dressing up. So my first job out of college, I would wear a tie every day and I would have friends complain about that. But it was something that I enjoy, so it fit with me personally, but now I know that if someone would ask me, is this a good job for you? If they are, if the dress is an issue, right?

If tattoos may be an issue, I have a friend who works in pharmaceutical sales, so quite a bit of tattoos, but they're all covered up. He made, he made some pretty big goals and got invited out to a it was something out in Vegas with some of like the big, the big leagues.

And they were also surprised when they saw his tattoos. Now he was still treated great and fine, but he sensed that there was a culture difference between all the artwork as he likes to call it and kind of what they were expecting. So, it wasn't a good or a bad thing, it was just something you're going to have to navigate when you determine what path you're taking.

 

Michael Wallace (10:45):

Yeah. Just to build on that. I've seen an evolution back when Pfizer for 32 years and Pfizer, it was all dark suits, white shirts, black shoes and at the end of the day there was no tattoos. There were no beards. And now everybody, you know, we're embracing people's authentic self and I have multiple employees that have tattoos and they're exposed or artwork as you like. Nothing wrong with artwork.

Hannah Staal (11:10):

To that too. We were talking about this earlier with our recent entry-level candidates with our Interns this year specifically we have noticed that they are bringing their whole self to work, which is pretty awesome.

It's different. And if you think back to maybe 10 years ago where interns were coming to work and they would have their clothes from old Navy or they find their professional clothes from wherever. It's not so much like that for us anymore at OST, and we are gaining kind of this lax attitude but also very positive and can do.

So, it's been really interesting for us and really positive that these individuals are choosing OST for their whole self and really bringing their whole self to OST, which has been great.

 

Megan Riksen (11:53):

So, what would you say to someone who is bringing their whole self, what does Professionalism look like then? What I guess what are some of them? This is gonna be for both of you, some of those standards of Professionalism.  If that's in communication or, I mean we've covered dress a little bit, but just any of those other components that go into it.

 

Hannah Staal (12:12):

Yeah, teamwork is really important to collaboration, to be able to work on a team and connect with others and communicate clearly would be must haves for us at OST.

Michael Wallace (12:24):

Yeah, I think I'll dovetail into that. And just a, you know, having a solutions mindset, so coming in with a positive attitude that's authentic and making sure that if you present a problem or you experience a problem, that you also try to find a way to provide the solution to it.

So, I think ultimately to have the mindset of how can I enhance or help grow the organization is very, very important. So those are attributes we're looking for as well.

 

Carlos Martinez (12: 54):

And are there any potential ways that either of you feel students can begin preparing themselves to be that proper professional employee once they Graduate?

Hannah Staal (13:04):

Absolutely. for us there's tons of different ways that people can start preparing even in college and through self-management. That autonomy that we talked about is so important and probably pretty present in many different professional settings. So being able to self-manage to be able to be punctual and have good attendance in class because that's pretty important in your work life in a ton more.

Michael Wallace (13:31):

Yeah. Let me build on that. Ultimately, I think one of the first and foremost things they can do to enhance their Professionalism is use the Career Service Center. And it's not because I'm here with you folks. The reality is this is one of the richest resources that any college student could take advantage of.

And I know that it's not fully maximized and the reality is it needs to be fully maximized. The other thing is is that I make myself available to any student that comes to the Career Fair. Ask those employers, can you mentor me? I have mentored multiple students. I haven't hired them, but I've given them my business card and they'll either send me their resume or I'll meet them with coffee or I'll meet him have a discussion with them over the phone while I'm driving and at the end of the day, that's how they can learn more about Professionalism is not just from me, but also from future employers.

They also can look and see what their chosen field is and maybe walk into that office. I know it takes a lot of courage, but walk into that potential office of where they want to work and just say, does somebody here want to Mentor me and help me with my Professionalism to help me advance my career down the road? But definitely use the Career Center. And it's not because I'm here with you folks today. That's the reality. When I was growing up, something like this did not exist. And this is the richest resource that any college student has today on campus beyond their classes.

Megan Riksen (14:55):

Right. And it's nice, it's nice to consult with us first because we're neutral, right? We're not representing one company or another or one industry or another. So we can talk a little broadly and, and help to kind of see the differences between all the different areas.

Carlos Martinez (15:11):

Yeah, we like to give our feedback based on the experiences we've had with different employers, so we can say, Hey, we've met someone with this type of culture we've met, we've met employers that, you know, require you to do this thing and so help you navigate all those different paths.

 

Michael Wallace (15:30):

 and your network is never ending. Oh, you guys not only know employers, but you know, a lot of the professors. So your network is just as rich as it gets and that's why students should take advantage of it for sure.

Hannah Staal (15:41):

The other opportunity that they have is to take advantage of the technology and the tools that they have right in front of them. So building that LinkedIn profile early and reaching out to professionals through LinkedIn is a little bit less intimidating than giving them a call or going to their office. But ultimately, Hey, would you like to grab a cup of coffee so I can learn more about your role? It's possibly something I'm interested in down the road. So, building that portfolio website of their schoolwork and just building that professional presence online before they even graduate, helps them stand out in a crowd.

Megan Riksen (16:18):

For sure. And I think the reaching out on LinkedIn, it's really key to be professional when reaching out as well. If you have a little chance to write a little note to someone on LinkedIn too, to take advantage of the ability to write in complete sentences. Right? I mean.

 

Carlos Martinez (16:36):

yeah, not as you text.

 

Megan Riksen (16:37):

not as your text. That's exactly right.

Michael Wallace  (16:40):

To your point I, I don't mind if the student’s text me, but that's a whole different language. So to your point of when they reach out to me on LinkedIn

Megan Riksen (16:46):

For the first time.

Carlos Martinez (16:49):

Yeah, Career Fair for example. Cause I say I'm, I can be found anywhere. LinkedIn, Snapchat, Pinterest, whatever you want to find me, I'm out there. But at the end of the day, your point is well taken. It creates an impression in terms of Professionalism when they reach out to you and they will write as if they're writing a text message in a LinkedIn message. So, it does make a difference.

 

Carlos Martinez (17:12):

And this is actually right on point for one of the other questions we had, which is, you know, how do you feel that that technology has influenced professionalism? So, I have a lot of thoughts on this one.

 

Michael Wallace (17:24):

Well, you can start.

Carlos Martinez (17:27):

You know, and this goes hand in hand. We'll have another question which was termed on Professionalism across generations also. So in that context, I think it's important for you as to understand that as an employee, that there are some of those differences that exist. One of the things that I had to manage early would be that learning that some employers like working with everything physical. I need the papers in front of me. I need all the books while when I come in the room, that's the last thing I want. I just want a tablet or my laptop and doing everything digitally, but sometimes you have to accommodate other people.

So now I, I've learned over time that if I'm going to run a meeting, I'm going to make paper available or at least bring a couple of copies just in case because everyone does work differently and we want to make sure that everyone has that opportunity to, you know, to work well.

And that can be navigated differently based on based on your employers, like in your company technology send there. So it's, it's pretty big. But in, in other spaces it can just depend on it. I can Higher Education, it will depend on who you're working with. One person is all about technology, the other person wants phone calls and in person meetings and if they don't have those in person meetings, then they're going to feel it's inefficient. Right.

Well I might think that two phone calls and a couple emails and I'll see you at the event in two months. Right. So, I'll go back and forth and I've just learned that I'll work differently with different folks around campus.

 

Michael Wallace (18:51):

Yeah. I think that ultimately in terms of technology, how my world has changed and the professional impression that it can give given as well as project is the use of these phones, telephones and I can be sitting in a meeting and I see generationally a difference in the use of telephones.

 

 

Megan Riksen n (19:12):

And during the meeting you're saying like people looking at their phones?

 

Michael Wallace (19:13):

Oh absolutely. And it generationally it has really been one of those things where it doesn't matter what the meeting is, doesn't matter who's at the front of the room. The reality is people are looking at their phones and you immediately jumped to the fact that they're looking at maybe Facebook or they're on Instagram. And the reality is I happened to call out one individual and they were taking notes on their phone. Yeah. And so here I was at the situation where I was thinking one thing and it was something different.

So, you've got to embrace the fact that we are moving forward. And I came from the generation where everything was paper and you read a newspaper, you didn't have your iPad pro and you would have proceed to go through that route.

And that's the world we live in now. We were at work with three devices, our iPhone, our iPad pro, and our laptop. And the younger generation, all they use is their phone and their iPad and the older generation would be laptop and their phone. So that's, that's the biggest difference that I've seen. And you gotta be careful when you define Professionalism and jump to a conclusion.

Just because somebody looking at their phone doesn't mean that it's for a distraction.

 

Carlos Martinez (20:22):

I now make announcements, at meetings and I'll say, Hey, I just want you all to know I'm not being rude. This is actually how I take my notes just to make sure that it's clear, that we're clear on if I see there's difference, cause I notice I'll get the looks and I'll just make a quick statement. I'm just taking my notes because it all feeds into my laptop.

 

Michael Wallace (20:39):

Yup. And that's fantastic. I think it's great that you set that before the meeting starts because we've also been in meetings where they say, everybody's shut your laptops so your iPad shut your phone and let's concentrate.

 

Carlos Martinez (20:52):

So that you want to add something?

Hannah Staal (20:53):

I would just agree with that completely. Especially in a world where we are surrounded in technology and a consulting agency and so for us there needs to be a flexibility around tools. We need someone to utilize Microsoft Office and Google or iOS and Android and so we need someone to be professional in a consulting environment where people are flexible around what tools we are using.

Carlos Martinez (21:20):

Yeah, and I think balance is key because on the other end of the spectrum I have worked with, with students, even alumni who they're so engaged with their technology that they haven't fully developed their, their social and interpersonal skills and they want those meetings, not because they think it's efficient, but it's, it may be because they get a little social anxiety about these in person meetings.

I've worked with some with some folks through that before. And so if that, if you feel that that's the case for you, it's more about seeking out Professional Development Opportunities, you know, find a speech club Toastmasters, I've seen some folks join that, but make sure that you're not using the technology that you're using it for efficiency, not because you're trying to mask some other areas that you could, you could actually be improving it. That could help you in the long run way more.

Michael Wallace (22:08):

Carlos, that's great advice because the reality is generationally individuals have a harder time looking somebody in the eye and having that one on one conversation and recommend something like, you know, Toastmasters or there's a lot of opportunities even if they want to talk to any of us probably. Right. We're all willing to do so. So that's great advice.

 

Carlos Martinez (22:30):

Are there any other generational differences that that stands out that you'd like to mention to talk about? I kind of, it's kind of an open ended one.

 

Michael Wallace (22:36):

No, I think it's very fair and I think that one thing I've seen is just the way people approach their work. I mean generationally I've come from cut from the cloth of it's an eight to five job where now we live in this world of technology and it gives us a lot of flexibility and a lot of individuals are willing to do their job and get eight hours in, but that's not a traditional eight hours of eight to five.

It's when the work needs to be done, it gets done. And those work hours, our job requires us to be eight to five. But I know there's other jobs within our organization that they could get up at three in the three in the morning and be done at two o'clock in the afternoon. Yeah.

Megan Riksen (23:15):

What about at OSD Hannah? Is that we actually are flexible work arrangements that people can work remotely or?

 

Hannah Staal (23:22):

Yeah, we actually don't have posted work hours. So we aren't bogged down to eight to five. And we really pride ourselves on honoring our employees in that way. So we know if people are out of the office by four that they're probably at home later in the evening answering some emails. And I think that's what our employees really appreciate about that is that flexibility.

But it's super important for those entry level employees to have that self-management to be able to go back, open up the computer again later that evening and get their work done.

 

Megan Riksen (23:56):

Have you had, not that you need to share super specifically, but horror stories from that where people just were taking advantage of that?

 

Hannah Staal (24:06):

I think that can happen sometimes with fully remote employees and so OST doesn't necessarily practice a lot of full-time remote employees. But we have tons of contractors so we have been in bad situations before where it's just not a good match for us.

Michael Wallace (24:25):

Yeah. And with technology, the last thing about technology and the impact on Professionalism is it enables individuals to, you know what I call garbage in, garbage out so they can manipulate the system and they can say, I was here, here, here and here in the course of my day. And just electronically submit that information. So that would be a horror story that you're alluding to. And the reality is you've got to trust. And trust is a huge thing in any job where there's that autonomy and that freedom and you've got to recognize that a lot of people don't mind working those hours. But some have the mindset they go to work and when they're done with their work, they go home and they're done for the day.

And so, they're still willing to spend time on their phone or their devices, but it's their own personal time to, you know, do the Instagram or the Facebook or whatever they enjoy doing.

Carlos Martinez (25:15):

They know, one horror story I read about a few years back, there was a, there was a gentleman in a company who they, they, they dealt with Software and what, what he actually did is he hired a personal virtual assistant cause you could, you could hire them really cheap abroad and he gave that person access to the root code of the company and passwords and had them doing their job. I want to say what's maybe in the Philippines. And so this person might have done it for close to a year. And so they were just kind of hanging out doing their own thing and pay just a small fraction of their actual salary to this other person. And they were just living the life.

And when they were finally caught, it's because you know, the company's IT Security Team were seeing people logging in from around the world. And so, I guess that's a counterbalance of old horror one cause that's all sorts of issues.

 

Michael Wallace (26:10)

But that's a huge concern obviously for anything.

What the person did actually obviously criminal and, but I mean the reality is you know, protecting your data, protecting the company is a huge concern for our organization. And I'm sure any company.

Megan Riksen (26:25):

And I would say just the honesty factor, right? Like just be honest about what you're doing with your time. If something happened and your car broke down and you needed to go get it fixed and couldn't work for a couple hours, just say it. In most cases, at least what I've found, certainly here at Grand Valley, our office is very understanding of the things that come up in life.

As long as you're addressing that and that's not putting something different on your calendar when you actually want to go be at your kid's Halloween party. Right. Like just be honest. And most of the time if you're still getting your work done, people are, you know, understanding.

 

Michael Wallace (27:02):

Exactly. And that's the reality is I always say it's best to tell the truth because it's hard to cover a lie. And the reality is there's nothing that replaces or trumps integrity at the end of the day. If you have high integrity and you just tell people the way it is, then you'll be, you'll be in a lot better place.

 

Carlos Martinez (27:19):

You know, once I put vacation time and it was because my daughter was sick and when Troy found out, I don't want to say he got upset but maybe like disappointed or like I wish he could have just told me, but he said next time don't take vacation for that. Just put that, just put out of office. We understand. And that's when I was still newer to the office and I was trying to understand like the office culture. That was the big lessons for me, cause I didn't even know that was a possibility.

In my mind, if you're out of the office, it's vacation or you should be working somehow. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And so-

 

Michael Wallace (27:52):

But that's a really important step because when you're interviewing for a job with a company, they need to understand the culture of that company and what that means. And they can, I mean, if they're interviewing with Michael Wallace, they can ask me, what's your culture like if I have to go to my child's baseball game, football game, whatever, at 4:30 in the afternoon, I'm like, you get one shot, be at that game or the parent teacher conference, whatever it may be. Yeah. We've got life. Life happens, right. A flat tire, to our kids, to ourselves. Exactly. Yeah.

 

Carlos Martinez (28:24): 

And you are seeing there are employers around the country who are definitely moving in that direction. Some are faster than others. But you're going to see a lot more of that as you navigate your career trajectory. And as people abuse, you're going to see some of those privileges taken away based on industries as well.

It's just kind of going to keep evolving like it always has. I attended a conference last year and one of the sessions dealt with generational differences in how people work, how they manage and how they like to be supervised. And that's another big part of it. Right? I don't remember which generation was which exactly, although I can take some guesses, but I remember there were, you know, some folks, probably the, the millennials and the generation, I forgot what it's called, B after millennials.

 

Megan Riksen (29:08):

 Gen Z.

 

Carlos Martinez (29:09):

There we go. That you know the, the value more freedom that they value more autonomy while generation X I believe it was more, we work and we going to go down and you know we work in, we're going to get our results and then we're going to go back home. And there was another generation where just be happy you have a job and we're going to work these 60 hours.

They broke it down. It was based on some scientific research, but the basic thread was just like with technology, there's differences in how folks manage, how they like to be supervised, that we also have to be conscious of.

 

Michael Wallace (29:44):

That'd be your next podcast. You need two more microphones. You're bringing in four generations.

 

Carlos Martinez (29:49)

Really good idea.

 

Megan Riksen (29:50)

That's a good idea.

 

Michael Wallace (29:53):

You have different generations come in cause I think the students would like to be a part of that discussion, as well as those of us that have been out in the workforce for 30 plus years.

Hannah Staal (30:04):

It's interesting because I know that in the past few years we've seen a huge difference in the way our, even our Interns come in with their requirements. So they will ask about that PTO. They will ask about just anything which is great and we want to answer those questions. But most importantly, they want to know that they're going to be doing meaningful work. Whereas if you did look a couple generations back, they were in that mode where it's like, we just want a job.

So, it's, it's certainly different, but it's great and it's their market right now. So they do have that opportunity to really pick and choose based on all of those different factors but also gain that experience, which is nice.

Carlos Martinez (30:44):

And again, just be mindful of all of this. It will always vary by employer and by industry. Right? And, and you don't, and none of us fit into neat little bubbles, right? Like I like meaningful work. I like to feel like I have Entrepreneurship. That's why I can do something like a podcast. Even though I'm an Academic Advisor, I'm a Career Advisor, I should say. But at the same time, I also don't like bringing work home at when I'm out of the office, I don't want to answer emails and I'll check it periodically just in case there's an emergency. But if it's not, it can wait. Right.

And so even among people in my generation, I'll have some of those differences. So, it's never really cut and dry because we're all individuals as well.

 

Michael Wallace (31:24):

Well stated. And I think that's very, very true. Not only the Company you're working for, but also who you're working with so that it can have a big impact as well. But everybody is an individual and you got to treat them that way for sure.

 

Carlos Martinez (31:39):

So talent acquisition, I guess I'll throw this one at you first. When you're considering hiring an individual at your org, what are some of the key components in, in that decision to say, yes, you can join our team?

Hannah Staal (31:53):

Yeah. For someone entry level that might not have the experience that we would typically look for. We would look for their passion projects. We would look for what they're doing on their spare time. What groups they're a part of, what organizations they're passionate about, are they volunteering?

So, we like to know about their whole self. So as I continue to kind of bring up this reoccurring theme, we really want to hire people that fit within our culture and that are interested in the types of things that we are. And then also have they prepared. So that will really stand out. They have researched our company, they've Googled current news on our leader who happens to be in the news constantly.

 

Megan Riksen (32:37)

That's great. Yeah.

 

Hannah Staal (32:39):

And they seem like they've truly prepared. And then also for us more in this can certainly vary by company, but I prefer, I think a Thank You note via email because we move quite quickly. So snail mail won't get to me in time. But then those soft skills that we mentioned earlier.

Carlos Martinez (32:57):

Yeah. Are there any professional behaviors that either a few fields can help a candidate stand out beyond their actual experience? How they navigate the interview process?

 

Michael Wallace (33:07):

Yeah, I think Hannah just alluded to it. Somebody that has great follow-up because in our job, the reality is, is the differentiator for many of these candidates is that they did follow-up with you not only being prepared as she alluded to and coming in and not knowing something about the company, not asking what, what is your company, who is your company coming into the company, and at the end of the day, really the follow-up and really showing that they listened during the interview process and then they give you back the information that you either alluded to or you requested during that interview process.

 

Megan Riksen (33:42):

How do you like a Thank You?

Carlos Martinez (33:48):

Yeah. I don’t really care. It really, nowadays a thank you note of any way, shape, or form. We don't move at the kind of pace that Hannah and her organization does, but at the end of the day, any kind of thank you as appreciated.

 

 

Megan Riksen (34:01):

Yeah. I think that is a key component of Professionalism.

 

Michael Wallace (34:03):

Absolutely.

 

Megan Riksen (34:05):

Yeah. It's not just all about you. These people are giving up their time to help you.

 

Michael Wallace (34:09):

Exactly.  

 

Carlos Martinez (34:10):

Higher Education tends to be slower, but what I, what I advise students will be, if you're, if you're very strong on that, it has to be a handwritten note or a physical note, bring it to the front desk and make sure it gets to that person.

Don't rely on, on sending it over just regular snail mail just to be safe in case they do move fast, like some companies will.

Hannah Staal (34:31):

We recently hired an intern that's in the master's program here at Grand Valley and during his interview he got up and usually our meeting rooms are kind of surrounded by whiteboards or dry erase boards. And he got up and he actually started presenting and writing on the whiteboards and to us that exudes confidence and just great consulting skills. So I think kind of that key there is competence. So even though you're probably super nervous, trying to be as confident in your skill sets as much as you can when you're interviewing really stands out because instantly that team said, we're going to hire him.

 

Megan Riksen (35:11):

Awesome.

Carlos Martinez (35:13):

Yeah. And basic communication skills. Look people in the eye, have a firm handshake, proper body posture. All of these things will go a long way. Even if, even if, the folks interviewing you don't realize it, don't realize it subconsciously it. There are a lot of studies that will show how that helps you stand out in a conversation and just kind of making your presence felt.

Megan Riksen (35:36):

All right, so now it's for our, our little segment that we like to call, Would you Hire this Intern? So I'm going to read the little scenario and you two can weigh in on what you think. Alright. So, your intern is constantly taking videos and pictures at work with no explanation.

Would you hire this intern?

 

Michael Wallace (35:55):

No. The reality is is in my world, the reality is is you can't take a lot of pictures and videos and share them. And I'm sure if they're taking them and they're videoing, they're sharing them universally. So therefore, I would be very, very careful and the world of, that I work in and probably most organizations that that is not a a behavior.

Megan Riksen (36:20):

Jury is still out for this at OST. I would like to investigate further. We actually have an Onboarding App for our interns all summer and we ask them to go up to our roof and take a selfie and we asked them to take a lot of photos and videos of networking events that we're sending them to and, and just different meetings that they go to.

So, for us, that builds to our culture and so I'd need to know more.

 

Megan Riksen (36:46):

Yeah, for sure. And you know, that's just a little scenario we made up. Overall, in so many of our podcasts lately, the overarching message is always just known where you are. Right. You know what's appropriate. Yeah. And you'll be fine.

Michael Wallace (37:05):

Depends on the situation. Like Hannah was saying, we have a kind of our social webpage called Yammer, which is internal of the company, but at the end of the day, if you're just taking a lot of cause of confidentiality, we're dealing with protected products.

Megan Riksen (37:19):

Very different situation.

 

Michael Wallace (37:22)

Worth more investigation.

Carlos Martinez (37:27):

Oh. So, if we put a positive twist?

 

Megan Riksen (37:28):

If we put a positive twist on it. This person is making a memory video to share for her last day. Or the negative twist would be she's making funny gifs and memes to post on social media to mock the office.

 

Hannah Staal (37:43):

Oh no.

 

 

Michael Wallace (37:44):

So not what you want.

I like to positive spin.

 

Megan Riksen (37:48):

Yeah, so the positive spin and probably if somebody was called out on that, my recommendation to that intern would be to share what they're doing, right? Proactively. Why not say I'm putting together this little project cause I really want to remember my awesome summer at your company. Right.

 

Michael Wallace (38:06):

That's fantastic.

 

Carlos Martinez (38:09):

All right, well we don't want to take much more of your time. We really appreciate you both, Michael and Hannah. Listeners, if you want to reach out to them, reach out to us and we can get you in contact with either one of them or just go to their respective companies and do a little more research.

They both have interns, they both have internship programs and they're just great companies to have a nice presence in the West Michigan area. We hope to hear from you again soon. I have a brain freeze right now and I don't know why.

 

Megan Riksen (38:41):

I think we’re good.

 

Michael Wallace (38:44):

I think you summarized well.

 

Carlos Martinez (38:47):  

I think as well, and I'm talking, but I'm trying to wonder if I have something else to say, but I don't, so we will hear you again. It's, it's March, so we will hear you again. You will hear us again. Still brain freeze. You will hear us again in April and take care.

 

Hannah Staal (38:59):

Thanks.

 

Michael Wallace (39:00):

Thank you.

 

Megan Riksen (39:00):

Thank you.