Career Considerations for International Students
Megan Riksen:
Hello and welcome to the Work Like a Laker podcast. I'm your host, Megan Riksen, and today I'm joined by my co-host, Brian Bossick. Hi Brian.
Brian Bossick:
Hi Megan.
Megan Riksen:
So today we are discussing a population of students that is really growing at GVSU, and that is our international student population. We're gonna dig into some of the career considerations for international students as they seek to gain experiences both here at Grand Valley and afterwards. So if you are an international student, we hope you're listening, but also we hope you're listening if you have a friend or a roommate who's an international student, if you're a faculty or staff member here on campus who's looking to better support international students. Really I think everyone should be listening to this, right?
Brian Bossick:
I absolutely agree.
Megan Riksen:
Awesome. So to help us with this topic, we have a special guest in studio today, which we always love our in-studio guests. Abraham Eapen is the coordinator of group services here at Grand Valley in the University Counseling Center. Welcome Abraham.
Abraham Eapen:
Thank you Megan and Brian for having me for the podcast. I'm really excited to be here.
Megan Riksen:
Awesome. Well, we really appreciate you coming in.
Brian Bossick:
Yeah. We are really glad to have you, Abraham. And I guess to begin, can you tell us a little bit about you and just start with an introduction?
Abraham Eapen:
Yeah, absolutely. I came to the US as an international student in 2006 for my graduate study in psychology. I also served as a graduate assistant for over two years at the international office. Mainly focused on programming and providing support services for international students, like providing orientation before they arrive here. Also, after the arrival, we helped supported them with orientation, accommodation, and other transitions here.
Megan Riksen:
Awesome. Where did you do your graduate study?
Abraham Eapen:
I did it at Wright State University in Dayton, Ohio.
Megan Riksen:
Oh, okay. Yeah. That's awesome. So how many years were you there for that program?
Abraham Eapen:
Yes, that's from 2006 to 2011. I graduated in 2012. I did my internship at Grand Valley State University Counseling Center. That's how I came to Grand Rapids.
Megan Riksen:
So you did like the the postdoc internship?
Abraham Eapen:
Doctoral internship.
Megan Riksen:
Doctoral, okay. Okay, cool. Awesome. That's exciting. So yeah, I think you're the perfect guest to have in because you have lived in the shoes of what it feels like to be an international student and decided to stay, so that's fantastic.
Abraham Eapen:
Yeah. Thank you.
Megan Riksen:
Yes, very good. So talk to us a little bit about what unique experiences you encountered as an international student in the US and just kind of, talk us through that journey a little bit.
Abraham Eapen:
I'm really excited to talk about it. One of my unique experiences as an international student is the opportunity to get exposed to diverse cultural experiences. International students, you know, we often learn how to communicate effectively. In the beginning it is challenging, definitely, because you're used to your own culture and communication styles. But here, after a while you get exposed to different cultural backgrounds and, in fact, it helps you develop cross-cultural competencies and perspectives. So I feel like international students, I also got a unique chance to develop global network of friends and professionals. So I feel like that's kind of a unique experience I still hold on.
Megan Riksen:
Oh my gosh. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. You have an actual global network. Yes. You know people across the globe. That's amazing.
Abraham Eapen:
Yes, I also did my masters and undergraduate in India.
Megan Riksen:
Oh, did you?
Abraham Eapen:
So I still have that.
Megan Riksen:
Before coming here?
Abraham Eapen:
Yeah. Before coming. I worked there for three years in India. So I am connected to psychologist professionals there. I did some programming there, so it's kind of a nice way to connect with here in US and also back home too.
Megan Riksen:
Absolutely.
Brian Bossick:
Ah, Abraham what was your master's in in India?
Abraham Eapen:
My master's was in holistic psychological counseling where we integrated not just western philosophy, but also yoga, like eastern philosophy, yoga, chronic healing, reiki. So we kind of integrated everything. So I kind of loved my program in that way.
Megan Riksen:
Very cool.
Brian Bossick:
And I love that you could bring that here and into your work here with students too.
Abraham Eapen:
Thank you.
Brian Bossick:
Well, you mentioned a little bit earlier too, that as much as you kind of get those global connections, that there's a challenge and there are some unique challenges of being an international student. I wonder if you can talk to that a little bit.
Abraham Eapen:
Absolutely. Especially when you come to US, you are in that honeymoon period. Ah, yes. Like a lot of excitement, you know, new things.
Megan Riksen:
Everything's new, new.
Abraham Eapen:
Including food is new too.
Brian Bossick:
Oh my goodness. I bet.
Abraham Eapen:
I think one of the most challenging, me personally, and also I have noticed in others, is a homesickness piece. After that honeymoon period, now you have that family support, like your home, your family, your friends. I feel like that homesickness and loneliness can be one of the beginning challenges most international students face. Most often internationals have to balance between that new experience and also missing those familiar spaces. So that's, I feel like that's one of the major challenging most international students face.
Brian Bossick:
That is gotta be a lot to hold at one time.
Megan Riksen:
How did you handle that? What were kind of your strategies for helping with the homesickness for yourself?
Abraham Eapen:
Yeah, definitely. Technology helped. I'm, I'm so glad - Skype at the time, 2006, it was getting popular.
Megan Riksen:
Yeah, Skype time.
Abraham Eapen:
Yeah. So I just love, I made sure to keep those connections. My close friends, even though I'm in another country, I made sure to have that close connections in space. So, and also make sure to go back to my go back to my state in India, Kerala, at least once every two to three years to keep the connection. When I go, I go there for three to four weeks, so -
Megan Riksen:
So you can see everyone.
Abraham Eapen:
Yes. My family, friends, and definitely technology is one thing that really helped. Second thing is connecting to the community. I, in addition to developing new connections, relationships, I also valued my culture, my language. So I also made sure to connect to who speaks the same language, celebrate celebrations that is together. So I also made sure to connect with my community here too.
Brian Bossick:
No, and it sounds like it's a real intentional decision, right? To, to make sure, hey, if I wanna keep this alive, these are the things I'm gonna do to keep this here for me.
Abraham Eapen:
Yes.
Megan Riksen:
Yeah. Connections are so important. And that actually is my next question. If we kind of shift now to talking about international students at Grand Valley, do you have suggestions for how they can best get connected on campus?
Abraham Eapen:
Yes, absolutely. I highly recommend, I mentioned earlier I was a graduate assistant too at the international office. I highly encourage international students to connect with the international office. And one of the reason is most often international office organizes events and workshop tailored for international students that will help them connect with to the campus life. I still remember we, we organized, I didn't know what football is.
Brian Bossick:
Oh, right.
Abraham Eapen:
So for, for in India we say soccer, like we say football for soccer. So it's differently said here. So I was not even familiar with flag football, so, so, I played flag flag football that time. So I played cricket. That's very sports in India. So I played cricket with my other, like other friends who are not familiar with cricket. So it's kind of a nice way to socialize and connect. Another important thing is with the international office, they have up to date information on education requirements and guidelines for international students because they are coming here on a visa. So they had to follow protocols, requirements. So make sure to connect with the international office to get up to date information on those two. In addition to connecting connect with international office to get those requirements or familiar with those requirements. Another center I highly encourage you to connect with is Career Center. And one of the reasons is most often we think about Career Center as something we connect towards the end of the semester, like in the final year. So one thing is that building that connection in your first semester with the career center is really helpful. One of the reasons is, one thing you're not really familiar with the culture, campus culture, the culture of the organization. So connecting with the Career Center staff right from your beginning can actually, in addition to your academic work, you can also develop your career at the same time. Because most often we international students come here to find a job that best fits with their interest and passion. And career development is something key for international students. And I feel like connecting right from the beginning rather can be more effective than connecting only at the end.
Megan Riksen:
Which is really true for any student. But if you're, yeah. If you're also navigating a new culture and trying to figure out how to do this career stuff? Yeah. Come in sooner. Come in as soon as you can and yeah. We would always love to help students anytime here in our office.
Brian Bossick:
When I think about that, I think you get the touch points early on as well.Then that it's somebody you've met your first year and then you can come back your second year, your third year. So it's like you've got continued support and I think that makes so much sense.
Megan Riksen:
And we have, sorry to interrupt you, we have many examples of international students who have done that, who have gotten to know their career advisor. And those are the success stories, right? Because they find internships and they know to attend different events and things we're offering and yeah. Many success stories come when the students have come in and really gotten to know people in this office.
Abraham Eapen:
And most often Career Center staff is connected to outside organizations. It's kind of networking right at the beginning.
Brian Bossick:
Yes. So well said.
Abraham Eapen:
Yeah. So it's kind of nice way to connect so the Career Center staff knows you, who you are, your job skills, experiences, and they can help you connect.
Brian Bossick:
I think it takes the mystery outside of networking, right? You meet with one person who's so connected and then they make it easier for you to connect. Well said. You actually bring me into like a, a really good question. I was thinking so how important is it for students, for international students, to attend career events and how can it be helpful for them?
Abraham Eapen:
I feel like the early engagement will provide them with enough time to explore their career path. One of the reason is sometimes when you come to US most often, you're not familiar with a lot of career pathways you can take. Like if you take psychology, psychology, I didn't know that psychology has like hundreds of different paths you can take!
Megan Riksen:
So many options!
Abraham Eapen:
Same with like engineering, the medical field, health field. So there are a lot of fields that you can take. Like for instance, if you want to be a nurse, you know, it doesn't have to be just RN. So you can be an LPN, medical assistant, you can be, can take a doctorate in nursing. So it's like a lot of career paths. So mentor students are not familiar with those. So coming early on can be really effective. Another aspect is a lot of resources related to career. A lot of networking events. Most often Career Center organizes those. Like I remember seeing one time the Career Center is really busy, and I realized that wow. Like there are employers coming here, representing other companies coming here. Wow. Good opportunity for international students to meet with them.
Megan Riksen:
Right. It's on campus often.
Abraham Eapen:
Yeah. They're coming to our space. So it's a good way to connect, you know? I really love that.
Megan Riksen:
Absolutely. International students should totally take advantage of that. I think about our career fairs too, in that space. You know, over 200 employers come to those. And many of them are global companies. They might be, you know, based in West Michigan or not, They could have offices throughout the world potentially. So I think yeah. Lots of opportunity again for that networking. Okay. So yeah, attending career events is great. What do you think about resumes? When should international students start thinking about those?
Abraham Eapen:
I love that question. One of the reasons is I think one thing I'm absolutely glad that I did, is also one of my roommate recommended, start working on your resume in your first semester, not towards the end of the semester. And one of the reasons is, and for me personally, which really I took that advice from my roommate, who was also an international student who was in the final year. So if you know -
Megan Riksen:
A little mentorship there.
Brian Bossick:
And you listened.
Abraham Eapen:
So I did connect with the Career Center and also, at that time, also with one of my senior in, in the program. Then I realized that, wow, I have this is, I want to be clinical psychologist, so there are a lot of gaps in mind. So how to strengthen my resume. So I started preparing those resume in my first semester so I can add things in as needed based on what I'm looking for. So I was missing, in my resume, I was missing a lot of like presentations in terms of conferences attended, less conferences. So I actually increased those during my time there. Then I have interest in working with adults clinically. So I, during my internship, I really made sure that I was connected with organizations, like internships that focus on clinical work with adults. So I was really deliberate in terms of focusing on my career and resume kind of helped me, give me a snapshot of everything. And I started adding it based on that. So starting it right from the beginning will give you a blueprint. And often know a plan and goals. So I really love to do that right from the beginning, which I always encourage, I really give that advice for my roommate too. All my international students.
Megan Riksen:
Yeah. I like kind of flipping that, not saying like, okay, let's sit down and write your resume based on everything you've already done. But let's start even before what gaps. Yeah. What gaps exist, what's missing. And then if you do that early on, you have the time to fill them just like you did. So, yes. Yeah.
Abraham Eapen:
Yes.
Megan Riksen:
Perfect.
Brian Bossick:
Yeah. And I think there's something brilliant about that because you maybe don't know what your blueprint should include until you start to have those experiences. And then you adjust it and you find out what fits. So that's, that's fantastic.
Megan Riksen:
Yes. Did you find that it was difficult to transition to an American resume? Compared to the CV or resume you had in India.
Abraham Eapen:
That's one of the things I still remember back in India where I did it can be very diverse in every places. You cannot generalize it if we have picture on the resume. Other personal details of the resume, color, color stuff. And based on certain majors, it's okay to have that artwork in place. And also the order, everything. So that's why one thing I've benefited is connecting with the Career Center and connecting with someone already in the field for several years who is familiar with these. So I really helped me, in the beginning it was kind of difficult, so I did my own draft, but included their input and more personalized. So I'm in a different culture. Different companies are different. So Career Center staff knows what they're looking for, and a professional who's in the field also know how to advocate for themselves with employers. So I kind of used both of them, took their input and personalized to my experience, definitely start with US. That's why I did start with who I am. Then I kind of integrated other piece in it, so it's more personalized to my experience other than others, but definitely include the other inputs in it.
Brian Bossick:
That's great.
Megan Riksen:
Good advice.
Brian Bossick:
You know, as you were putting your resume together, I, I'm curious, like what unique strengths and skills did you find that the international students can bring? That they can highlight in their resume, that they can highlight as they're talking to companies and networking.
Abraham Eapen:
I always encourage international students, or even for others how much international students can strengthen and diversify college campuses and offer valuable contributions to employers too. Even like here, I, and sometimes, you know all students can benefit from that diverse experiences and in, and our world is so small, it's with technology, you know, your boss, your coworkers can be from another country.
Megan Riksen:
Easily!
Abraham Eapen:
Yeah. So, so sometimes I even, like, I do, English is my second language, and sometimes I encourage others who are not familiar to get familiar with it. So when I came to US for the first time, it is difficult for me to understand English in the beginning because the pronunciation is something I'm not familiar with. So in the beginning it was challenging, but after six, seven months I got used to it. So that's one thing I, for all of us to get familiar, interact with someone who speaks a second language. So your brain gets used to it, you get familiarized with it. So when you're out in the real world, you are going to interact with your boss or your customers who is coming from a different culture, background language. So getting that familiarity, I feel like international students can bring in that wealth of experience to the to the campus. And if others can utilize that, that's beneficial for all of us. Even for employers perspective always including international students. One of the reason is that cross culture competencies and in this globalized world that is really important. Also, very unique perspectives can lead to innovative solutions and creative problem solving within our work environment. I feel like employers who value diversity and include international employees in their team can gain a competitive advantage and foster a more inclusive and productive workplace.
Megan Riksen:
I think, and that's been proven time and again now in, in research, right? That really, that diversity of thought and backgrounds and all of that is only going to move an organization forward. So let's talk a little bit about networking. How do you think international students can begin to build their network?
Abraham Eapen:
I love that question too, because that is kind of key to develop right from the beginning. So building a network for international students is actually help them to make most of, out of their college experience and enhance your future career perspectives. As I mentioned earlier, you know, connecting with the Career Center staff, you're actually building a relationship.
Megan Riksen:
That's right.
Abraham Eapen:
So even like connecting, as I mentioned earlier for my resume, I connected with someone who is in the senior finally right here. So connecting that network gives me a perspective. So highly encouraged right from the beginning to have that diverse network of connections. Please make sure internationals engage in campus organizations that align with your personal and career interest. That's also a great way to connect. Like for instance, business club, you know, if you're interested in that, join that, you know. It is once a week, you know, it's a two hours of commitment, but you are developing that connection. Additionally attend workshops, social events organized by international office and also by the Career Center. Megan already mentioned about Career Fair, you know, right. There are workshop for resume, workshop for job interviews. So attend those and enrich those. Don't just think about right towards the end, but try to see whether you can integrate parallel with your academic work, that career piece right from the beginning. So I feel like network is kind of the key for that.
Megan Riksen:
Yeah. Yeah. Agreed.
Brian Bossick:
And it makes so much sense that you're, you're always learning, right? So if you start early, you can start to figure out what's, what's important to you and what part of your network you want to continue to build on.
Abraham Eapen:
Yes. Absolutely.
Brian Bossick:
You spoke, Abraham, just about kind of the networking and connecting, and I was wondering if you can talk a bit about the importance of, let's say LinkedIn and internships and just that hands-on kind of real experience.
Abraham Eapen:
Yes, absolutely. LinkedIn is something I got familiar with here. I feel like really LinkedIn opened up your opportunity for networking because sometimes, you know our space is limited in terms of like most of them we connect, as I mentioned, at a Career Center, our professionals here. But now with LinkedIn, your connection really opens up to anyone. There are some areas, you know, your, like psychology, there can be some areas will be limited professionals in the area. So LinkedIn, you can see, okay, there is someone who graduated from here in 2000, works in a different field. You can connect with that person through LinkedIn! Earlier we didn't have that opportunity. So I feel like in this global world, LinkedIn provided that great platform for us to network, to expand our network rather than limited to a specific location. Now it's kind of global. So you can connect if someone likes to work in another country, maybe there is a LinkedIn who is in the business major, maybe working in another country.
Brian Bossick:
Absolutely.
Abraham Eapen:
You may be able to connect through LinkedIn for that.
Megan Riksen:
Right. And connect. And then maybe take the connection outside of LinkedIn and, and yeah, be able to Zoom or FaceTime or something. Like do some of those more like informational interviews even. To gain more information about that person and, and just kind of further that relationship.
Abraham Eapen:
Yes. And from my experience, most often they love to talk about it.
Megan Riksen:
I know. Yes. I agree.
Brian Bossick:
That is so true.
Abraham Eapen:
Yeah. Like this podcast, I love to talk about it. I don't know, when I talk I have that passion, but that's because I have gone through it and I love to share. And that was my experience. Even talking with others too, like most often, even they don't know you, but they have interest in your field. They love to talk.
Brian Bossick:
Yes.
Megan Riksen:
Yes.
Brian Bossick:
Yeah. And I think so often folks think back that if somebody would offer this to me or to be willing to help me, so they want to help you. They want to give that information, share their journey. So I think that is such a great description of like how LinkedIn can work and I'm wondering if too, if you could speak just about internships as well and, and how they are helpful for international students.
Abraham Eapen:
Good. As I mentioned earlier, resumes are a great way to get a blueprint. I, I feel like I highly encourage, even it can be paid or unpaid to consider volunteer opportunities or internship opportunities to strengthen. For me personally, I have work experience back home, but I'm not familiar with work experience here. So clinically when I work, there's a lot of differences. I felt anxious, I was worried. English is my second language. How do I interact? So I feel like internship practicum experience in my program was one of the most helpful things in the beginning. It was anxious, it was concerning, but the more experience I gained, the more confidence I gained. Not just in my career, also in my academic work too. At the same time I was able to bring in my work experience from other culture too. So it kind of a nice combination of both. But I feel like volunteer internship really helped. So I highly encourage whatever field you are in consider it can be unpaid, it can be a volunteer experience, consider those experiences here and at GVSU, you have a lot more options for volunteer opportunities. Absolutely. there are organizations dedicated to help you connect with volunteer internship opportunities. Career Center is one of them. Especially helps with internships and volunteer opportunities. I'm familiar with other organizations, but not on top of my head, but there are organizations here that helps.
Megan Riksen:
Great. Okay. So I think to kind of end our time together today, let's get into a little bit of some of the details of how international students might go about getting some experience and then maybe kind of what their career would look like after they graduate. So, Abraham, can you tell us what CPT/OPT, talk a little bit about sponsorship. Let's, let's go there. Let's talk about some of that stuff.
Abraham Eapen:
Sure, sure. One thing I highly encourage is to, whatever we hear from from about CPT/OPT or sponsorship, make sure to connect with international office to gain up-to-date information. But I like to generally talk about the, what those are. CPT's curricular practical training and OPT's optional practical training. And both are programs that allow international students in the US to gain practical work experience related to their field of stud. Curricular practical training from that word you can make out it is done off campus in a paid or unpaid internship position that are integral to their academic program. That is often done during your academic year or during summertime. On the other hand, optional practical training is a program that allows international students to work off campus in a job same way related to their field of study after completing your academic program. And students must receive approval from international office. So they will help you to submit the forms, paperwork before starting CPT and OPT. And on the other hand, sponsorship that is really it's a different type of visa. It's a process by which US employers sponsors an international student. Now when they sponsor you, they're an employee. So, so you'll be under Employment visa. That's, it's called H1B Visa. It will, H1B Visa allows skilled foreign workers to work in the US and H1B is a common pathway for international students to continue work in the US after completing their OPT period. Again, as I mentioned earlier, international students needs to understand the regulations and requirements for CPT/OPT and sponsorship to make the most out of that opportunity to work experience and potential employment in the, in the US.
Brian Bossick:
And it really sounds like the key to that is connect with the international office early and understand like where you're at in your career, what you're looking for and how to do that too.
Abraham Eapen:
Correct. Correct. Yes.
Megan Riksen:
Yes. And I would say with the sponsorship piece, that networking comes in handy there as well. That's a good point because The more people you know, at different companies throughout wherever you're looking to work, you know, if you have a connection there, you can ask them, does your company sponsor? How many you know, employees are from a different country? You can start to get a real sense for the places that might be a good fit.
Abraham Eapen:
Yes, yes. I agree with you, Megan. That's where, that's why career fair, like look for that invite. So that's how you network, you know, talk with them, you know, do theysponsor employees?
Megan Riksen:
It doesn't hurt to ask.
Abraham Eapen:
Yes. And do it right from the beginning so you can do it. It's okay to pay an unpaid, volunteer experience there, right? That you know, that they sponsor you so that you can show your talents.
Megan Riksen:
Awesome. Well, I think we've covered a lot today.
Abraham Eapen:
Yes.
Megan Riksen:
This is great. Thank you for bringing your expertise and your personal, you know, experience for us today. Yeah. Awesome. Well, thank you so much to everyone for joining us, and we hope you tune into a future episode soon.
Abraham Eapen:
Thank you.