Megan Riksen:

Hello and welcome to the Work Like a Laker podcast. I'm Megan Riksen and my co-host today is Grace Joaquin. And we will be joined in just a couple of minutes by two of our fabulous career connectors, student employees here in the Career Center, who will be helping us out with some fun trivia we're doing. But if you've ever wanted to move out of Michigan, adventure out of Michigan, maybe your dream job is based somewhere else and today's episode is for you. So Grace, have you ever worked out of state? I mean, I know the answer to this because we talked about it on the podcast, but I'll just throw that question over to you.

Grace Joaquin:

<Laugh>. Yes, and I honestly, it wasn't my initial plan, but I graduated with my teacher certification in 2013 where there wasn't a lot of jobs in Michigan for teaching at that time. So I went to the Out of State Teacher Fair here at Grand Valley, and I've told the story before, so apologies to those of you who have heard this.

Megan Riksen:

I hope we have loyal listeners who have heard us talk about this before.

Grace Joaquin:

Long time listeners. But I did end up taking a job in Arizona, which again was not my original plan, but it was one of the best decisions I've ever made. It was such a good experience to just live somewhere else for a little while. I ended up staying there for three years and I really recommend it to anyone who's considering looking out of state. It was life changing for me in good ways. How about you, Megan?

Megan Riksen:

Yeah, I've lived outside of Michigan and worked outside of Michigan, but kind of had a unique circumstance because I lived in the Netherlands and it was for my husband's job. But I was able to continue working on a super part-time basis for Grand Valley. And I got kind of sent around to a few other countries to check out internship programs to do a little bit of recruiting for the admissions office here. And yeah, I completely agree that moving somewhere different if it's for work, even if it's just, you know, a little bit of travel that you're trying to do, it definitely opens your mind and, you know, just gives you a different perspective.

Grace Joaquin:

And I love your example too, Megan, because I feel like that's more and more common where people are maybe working in different states, countries, et cetera, but the employer is not where they're working.

Megan Riksen:

Exactly. Right. Kind of those remote opportunities that allow you to live where you want to live, but still have a job.

Grace Joaquin:

Yeah, exactly.

Megan Riksen:

Yeah. Awesome. All right, so let's move into the trivia game portion of our podcast today. And basically the rules for this little game is whatever we feel like doing. So I am going to, and Grace will both ask some questions about what it's like to either do a job search out of state or live out of state. And then our career connectors will kind of jump in and give us their thoughts. And then we'll also be sure to share some tips related to each of those questions. So let's bring in Hannah Zylman and Elizabeth Gibbs. Hi ladies.

Hannah and Elizabeth:

Hello <laugh>. Hi.

Megan Riksen:

All right. So Hannah, let's start with you. Why don't you just give a a little bit of an introduction of yourself, what you're doing here at Grand Valley, and if you have any sort of a connection to this job search out of state.

Hannah Zylman:

Yeah, so both of us actually are in our senior year and we actually had a class together freshman year. So it's kind of fun now that we worked together.

Elizabeth Gibbs:

Yeah. It was the career exploration class too. It was like the career exploration one. So we actually, like, were exploring what we wanted to study too, and that's how we met each other.

Megan Riksen:

That's amazing.

Hannah Zylman:

Fun little backstory. But I am an environmental sustainability major with an advertising and PR minor, and I will be moving to Montana in the fall, so I'm kind of in the, the lookout for a new job. And I'm hoping to do some seasonal work just to kind of pass the time after I graduate, have some fun. But I also did an internship in France, so I have had experience going abroad and moving and trying to find a job and adventure?

Megan Riksen:

How was the internship abroad?

Hannah Zylman:

It was a lot of fun. I really enjoyed it. It was a great opportunity and I'm very glad that I got that chance to do that.

Megan Riksen:

Was that through like a Grand Valley sponsored program or did you find that on your own?

Hannah Zylman:

It was actually through a professor that I had that used to work there. She had a colleague that was looking for an intern and I knew that I had wanted to study abroad in France. I was hoping to get a French minor as well, but with COVID my study abroad got canceled. So it was a little bit of a disappointment, but I still got the opportunity then to go there and get an internship working for my major. So it was a good combination of both things that I kind of needed.

Megan Riksen:

Wow, that's perfect.

Grace Joaquin:

That sounds like so much fun.

Megan Riksen:

Sounds amazing.

Grace Joaquin:

And France and Montana. France is one of my favorite countries I've been to and Montana is probably my favorite state I've been to, so -

Hannah Zylman:

It's same for me. <Laugh>.

Grace Joaquin:

You got some good taste.

Megan Riksen:

You're doing something right here. This is good. All right. So Elizabeth, same question to you.

Elizabeth Gibbs:

Yeah. So as Hannah mentioned, I'm a senior this year. I'm studying psychology and sociology, and then I'm currently accepted into the grad program here at Grand Valley for College of Student Affairs and Leadership next year.

Megan Riksen:

Yay. Congrats.

Elizabeth Gibbs:

Thank you.

Megan Riksen:

Okay. So should we jump into our game?

Grace Joaquin:

Yes. I have the first question, I believe. Are you -

Megan Riksen:

Okay, I was just, I was going to ask that Grace. No, I'm just kidding. <Laugh>, you were supposed to. Yes, please.

Grace Joaquin:

I have the script right here, Megan <laugh>. All right. So question one. According to a survey conducted by College Pulse, about what percentage of college seniors want to move out of state for their first job.

Hannah Zylman:

Am I supposed to just take a shot in the dark? At what percentage?

Megan Riksen:

Yes. Try in the dark.

Hannah Zylman:

Oh boy. I'm going to guess probably 40%.

Grace Joaquin:

You hit the nail on the head!

Megan Riksen:

Oh my!

Hannah Zylman:

I did not look at the sheet, I promise. That was a total guess!

Megan Riksen:

That's amazing.

Grace Joaquin:

Good job! Yeah, so approximately 40%. Exactly right. These numbers change slightly for in-state and out-of-state students. So 37% and 42% percent respectively, despite about one in four students wanting to move out of state. Grand Valley's first destination survey from 2020 to 2021 graduates indicates that approximately 85% of graduates are living and working in the state of Michigan. I will say I have like a fun little fact about that off the top of my head. When I moved to Arizona, I noticed that most of the people who lived there were not from there and I thought that was interesting because that's not how Michigan is <laugh>. And so I Googled it and it, it talked about how there are some sticky states and some magnet states. And Michigan is a sticky state, which means that people who are born here often stick here and Arizona is a magnet state, which means that it draws a lot of people to move there.

Megan Riksen:

Which makes sense. The weather.

Grace Joaquin:

Yeah, so <laugh> I know.

Megan Riksen:

Why do we stay, why is it sticking?

Grace Joaquin:

I think because everyone else sticks. So all of our friends and family - they just trap us here, but we love it. We love it.

Hannah Zylman:

It's a safe state. There's, there's not too much danger going on.

Grace Joaquin:

And we have four seasons, which I love. I mean, winter's a little long, but anyway.

Megan Riksen:

Anyway, we're talking about out of Michigan. We'll do another podcast on how great Michigan is.

Grace Joaquin:

Right. <Laugh> Not the goal today.

Megan Riksen:

Good. Okay. Alright. So next question. Besides the state of Michigan, what state has the largest number of GVSU graduates?

Elizabeth Gibbs:

I would have to guess one, like in the Midwest area, just because I feel like a lot of people, like as you're saying, like people tend to stay in Michigan. So I feel like a lot of people would stay in this area still.

Megan Riksen:

You gotta pick one, gotta pick one state.

Elizabeth Gibbs:

Maybe Illinois. Just because I feel like so many people who go to Grand Valley, like are from Illinois, so I feel like they'd maybe go back home there just because Chicago's like a big city too. And it's like very close to here. So that would be my guess.

Megan Riksen:

Elizabeth, you're so right. I, I don't know. It's like we set this up but we actually didn't <laugh>.

Grace Joaquin:

They're just good.

Megan Riksen:

They're just good. Yeah. I think for exactly those reasons, Illinois is the highest. According to GVSU's alumni relations office, we have 3026 alums there. Any guesses on the second one, either of you?

Hannah Zylman:

I just saw it. <Laugh>.

Elizabeth Gibbs:

I would guess, I don't know actually maybe like New York because I feel like that's kind of similar to Michigan's weather too and like bigger cities there, but I don't actually know.

Megan Riksen:

Yeah. It's actually Florida with a little over 2000 alums and then California. But I would imagine New York is up there somewhere because I feel like New York City is just a draw for a lot. Yeah. All right. So the first tip around this question would be to not only just start applying to positions, of course that's part of it, but connecting with recruiters out of state is a great step in an out-of-state job search. Linkedin can come in really handy for this. And what you'll be able to do is start to, you know, have some conversations. Maybe that's through the LinkedIn messaging feature. Maybe that's by, you know, communicating via email or hopefully even taking it a step further to set up some informational interviews. We had mentioned alums and I think connecting with alumni who live out of state is going to be huge. Yeah. So tip number two is use LinkedIn. We actually do have an episode earlier this season, episode two, where we give lots of tips on how to leverage LinkedIn. So we definitely recommend checking that out. And then tip number three, when you graduate, we encourage you to fill out the Career Center's First Destination Survey. This is something that will be emailed to you multiple times if you don't fill it out because we like to get responses for this because it really helps us to stay up to date with our alums and help to create networking opportunities. You can also join GVSU affinity or regional networks by visiting the alumni relations office. So there's lots of ways to kind of stay in touch, I think, with that alumni network and really try to tap into that as much as possible.

Grace Joaquin:

And I do think alumni love to help other Lakers, but also just in general, when you move to a new state, if you have a connection with anyone there, in my experience, people are so friendly and willing to chat with you, meet for lunch, show you around. Like people are very helpful typically, and love to make those connections, so don't hesitate.

Megan Riksen:

Yeah. And it doesn't even have to be like for the express purpose of talking about your career sometimes or finding a job. Sometimes it's just you need somebody to talk to and learn the great areas to live and things like that. And then maybe they know people who work in your industry or something like that and could kind of help you in that way.

Grace Joaquin:

Exactly. Yeah. Well, great tips Megan, and let's move on to question three. So Hannah, do you want to answer this one?

Hannah Zylman:

Sure. Go ahead.

Grace Joaquin:

Okay. True or false, Michigan standards for professional licensure apply to all states.

Hannah Zylman:

I would have to say false.

Grace Joaquin:

You got it. Good job!

Megan Riksen:

Ding, ding, ding. We need to like put in some, like music for all these right answers.

Grace Joaquin:

We need sound effects.

Megan Riksen:

Yeah. We need the sound effect.

Grace Joaquin:

Higher budget please. So a tip for that is if you are in a field that requires professional licensure such as social work, education, speech pathology, medicine, et cetera, you will need to research the licensure requirements for the state you intend to move to. Each state manages their professional licenses slightly differently and may have different requirements to apply or keep your license and practice your professio. CareerOneStop has a license finder tool that can help locate the licensing agencies for your profession in different states. I will say as a teacher, I dealt with this when I moved to Arizona and it honestly wasn't that bad. Like they kind of helped me. The school I was working with helped me figure out what I needed to do, and it was like, take a couple of classes and take one more exam. It really wasn't too, too terrible. So just make sure you're prepared for that though.

Megan Riksen:

Yeah, absolutely. I think using that CareerOneStop license finder.Then you, you have a better sense of what you're kind of walking into and you know, maybe it's really tough. Right? I know social work has a lot of hoops to jump through.

Grace Joaquin:

Yes and that's something to think about too, if you're looking into grad school and you're thinking you might want to live in another state. Maybe you look at grad programs in the state you eventually want to move to. If there's licensure involved.

Megan Riksen:

Right. Could make it a little easier on you. Yeah. Okay. Interesting. Our next question we'll shoot over to Elizabeth. True or false, you should have a PO box in every location you plan to apply for jobs.

Elizabeth Gibbs:

I would say that one would be false. It might be helpful to have a PO box in like a similar area that you're applying for. Because for my internship last summer, actually I had, it was on the east side of the state and I was about to move apartments, so I had to have my paycheck sent to an address. So I had them all sent to my parents' house, which was a little bit inconvenient. So it can make it easier, I'd say if you have a PO box that can be sent to, but it's not completely necessary at the same time.

Megan Riksen:

Yeah, you're right. Again!

Grace Joaquin:

Yes. We we hire people who are too great at this job.

Megan Riksen:

Exactly. You guys know what you're talking about. Yeah, so I think definitely for the reasons you mentioned Elizabeth, it could come in really handy. A PO box out of state, it just can be a helpful tool in a job search outside of the state because it indicates, you know, that you're putting some time and energy that you probably are likely to move there. You then have that state's address on your resume, all of that good stuff. But, you know, it's not like you need to go out and get 10 PO boxes if you're planning to move, if you have an open job search and you don't have one, you know, specific location. So yeah, having, having that is not a necessity, but could be something that works in your favor, especially if you are really targeting one specific geographical location.

Grace Joaquin:

Yeah, that's good advice. All right. Are we ready for question five? So Hannah, congrats. You just got an interview out of state. And the organization is paying for all of your travel expenses. After a fantastic interview process the company extends an offer of employment, but you reject it as you have accepted another job better suited to your needs. You then receive a bill detailing your interview expenses. Is this legal?

Hannah Zylman:

Ooh, I don't know. That's a hard one. I'm going to say false because I would think that you're not actually an employee yet, so you wouldn't have any connection that they would be able to charge you for it.

Grace Joaquin:

Honestly, that's what I would've thought too, but it actually is legal.

Hannah Zylman:

What?

Grace Joaquin:

Yes.

Hannah Zylman:

Oh my gosh.

Grace Joaquin:

I know. I'm actually glad that I'm reading this one because it, I'm learning something new. You should always check to see if there are stipulations for travel reimbursement before interviewing with a company. Because some organizations will only pay for your interview travel if you accept the job offer.

Hannah Zylman:

Interesting.

Grace Joaquin:

Yeah. I mean, I'm kind of surprised I've never heard this happening, but clearly it's legal and it can.

Hannah Zylman:

It's good to know for sure.

Grace Joaquin:

Yeah. So it is important to know prior to applying for multiple positions out of state if you would like to have travel reimbursed, so keep that in mind. So tips with that, tip number one, when applying for out-of-state positions, you may be able to ask if the company would be able to host the interview virtually or if they cover travel for interviewing. As always, thoroughly read the job posting and company website to see if they've listed these policies so that you're not like asking questions that you should already know the answer to. If the organization does not specify what they offer for travel, it is fair game to ask. Depending on the type of position or where the organization is in the hiring process, you may be required to interview in person. When I did it in Arizona, they did allow me to do it virtually, so that was nice.

Megan Riksen:

Yeah, and I would say that's very common and more common now in the post covid era. Yeah.

Grace Joaquin:

Tip number two, be strategic. If the positions you are applying to either don't cover travel or stipulate that you must accept an offer to receive travel reimbursement, you may reconsider how well the position aligns with your professional goals. You may also be able to align your interviews in a certain location so that you aren't making several trips to the same city to interview for four positions. However, it is considered inappropriate to combine interviews in the same trip if one organization is covering the costs for your trip. That's a good tip to know. It's the etiquette of travel. And then finally, tip three, if you know you might not accept a position for any reason, let the hiring manager know as soon as possible. Organizations commit a lot of resources to the hiring process and it is best to be as timely as you can if you know you will not be continuing forward in the hiring process, which is never a fun conversation, but it's important.

Megan Riksen:

Yes. Be upfront as soon as you know.

Grace Joaquin:

Yeah. All right, thanks Hannah.

Megan Riksen:

Okay, I think we are on our last question. So this is another true or false, Elizabeth. True or false, you can live abroad while working remotely for a US company?

Elizabeth Gibbs:

I would say that one's true. I feel like it's so common now that people live so far from like where the company is. So I'd say as long as the hours align and the company's okay with it, that you'd be able to live anywhere.

Megan Riksen:

You are right. That is definitely true. But there are a few caveats that we want to make sure we mention. So working remotely for a US employer can be a great way to have flexibility on your location. And this, you know, yeah. It might be outside of Michigan, somewhere in the states, or it could even be abroad. So there are both organizational and legal requirements though that you might need to meet in order to do so. So of course having permission from your employer, but then there are all these fun things like work visas, tax considerations. I know when we lived in the Netherlands, we had to play taxes in both places. You got a little bit of a break on one side, but you have to look through some of the fine print of this stuff. According to law.com, many countries have begun to adopt specific visa policies for employees who travel the world while working remotely. These people are digital nomads, which sounds fun. I want to be one. But yeah, this is definitely a case, especially with moving abroad where you gotta do your research and talk to the right people. Tip number two then is we do have a starter's guide for working abroad on the Career Center website where we list some resources, some tips for searching for international job opportunities, that sort of thing. So if that is something that you're targeting is even moving outside of the US, not just outside of Michigan take a look at that guide. It can be a good starting point. Okay. That is all of our questions for today.

Grace Joaquin:

I have a question. Who got more right? I don't, I wasn't keeping track.

Megan Riksen:

I don't know. I think -

Grace Joaquin:

You both did really good!

Elizabeth Gibbs:

Yeah. I'm not sure either. Actually. I wasn't paying attention.

Megan Riksen:

I think we had only one.

Hannah Zylman:

I think I was the only one that got one wrong. So Elizabeth got -

Grace Joaquin:

So Elizabeth technically, but both of you did awesome.

Megan Riksen:

Yes. You both did really well.

Grace Joaquin:

You both win!

Megan Riksen:

Yes, the two winners! Of course. All right. Well thank you Hannah and Elizabeth for joining us.

Hannah Zylman:

Absolutely. It was a pleasure.

Elizabeth Gibbs:

Yeah, of course. I enjoyed it.

Megan Riksen:

Awesome. All right. I think that's all we have, Grace. So I just want to thank everyone so much for listening and we hope you tune into a future episode soon.