Megan Riksen:

Hello and welcome to the Work Like a Laker podcast. I'm Megan Riksen, and today I'm joined by Grace Joaquin to talk about a pretty hot career right now. Crime scene technicians and investigators. So, Grace, why do you think this job is so popular among our students?

Grace Joaquin:

I think there's a lot of reasons, but I, I think one of the main ones is because of television. I know that when I've talked with students, a lot of them will reference shows like CSI or Criminal Minds, where they see these interesting characters doing interesting jobs and they're excited about that and wanna look into it themselves. I think also it's just a really cool field where you get to make a difference and use your brain in fun ways which draws a lot of people into this role. Megan, do you watch any of those shows?

Megan Riksen:

Not really, no. No, I don't think I do. I am more of like a True crime podcast listener. So I definitely hear about some of the things that likely a crime scene technician is doing, but yeah, I don't watch a lot of those fictionalized shows.

Grace Joaquin:

They can give me nightmares. So I have, if I watch it, I have to watch it during the day. I'll like enjoy it, but I can't watch it right before bed. So I don't think I'm cut out for this career, but I like learning about it.

Megan Riksen:

But it's fun to hear about.

Grace Joaquin:

Well, I know that when thinking about different podcast topics, this career often comes up for us when we're having these discussions because so many students are curious about how to get into this field as well as what the job actually looks like compared to how it's portrayed on tv. I think that there can be some misconceptions as well with this field about like what classes you should take, what major you should have, and, and things in that sense. And so we really wanted to talk to an expert, someone who actually does this, so that Megan and I can learn. And then also students who are interested in this field can learn about what it actually takes to do this job.

Megan Riksen:

For sure. This is definitely one where we need to bring in someone who does this.

Grace Joaquin:

Yes.

Megan Riksen:

So with that, I am going to bring in our guest for today. Her name is Mallory Kaysserian, and she is a crime scene technician and also a GV alum. Hi Mallory, welcome to the podcast.

Mallory Kaysserian:

Thank you. I'm excited to be here.

Megan Riksen:

How you doing today?

Mallory Kaysserian:

I'm really good. How are you?

Megan Riksen:

Good. We're excited to have you. I think we get a little like, excited to talk about this too. It's just such an interesting career field.

Mallory Kaysserian:

It is. It's not, it's not one you hear about often, especially in an academic setting.

Grace Joaquin:

Exactly. I took some criminal justice classes and I took some psych classes and some science classes, and I feel like we didn't really go in depth with this, so it's just really fun to be able to learn more about it. And with that in mind, I do have the first question for you. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself and your time at Grand Valley?

Mallory Kaysserian:

Yes. So I was at Grand Valley from 2012 to 2016. I got my undergraduate degree in criminal justice. I minor minored in psychology. So I took the standard Bachelor of Science criminal justice classes. And there weren't any sort of crime scene class options. They had some investigation courses and theory classes, which are all very important. But yeah, I loved my time here at Grand Valley. I'm happy to be here and be back.

Megan Riksen:

Welcome back.

Grace Joaquin:

Yeah. Thank, thank you for coming back.

Megan Riksen:

Awesome. So let's dig into what you're doing now. Can you tell us what you do for a living and also maybe a little background on how you even got into that field in the first place?

Mallory Kaysserian:

Yeah, so growing up, I always wanted to be a crime scene investigator. I had seen the shows and on tv, but people sort of told me it wasn't a real job. That, you know, it's, it's a Hollywood fictional thing.

Megan Riksen:

Is this fake?

Mallory Kaysserian:

Right. And so I went into criminal justice knowing that was the field that I enjoyed learning about. And so I was enjoying my classes. I knew this is where I wanted to be. I looked into a couple different career options probation, parole, police, analysts. And then I just kept coming back to, I like figuring things out, sort of putting pieces of the puzzle together. And I ended up figuring out that there was real jobs like that out here.

Megan Riksen:

Did you figure that out through like, any job shadows or like talking to someone who had done it? How'd you kind of get to that point?

Mallory Kaysserian:

So, one of my roommate's, boyfriend's moms was a crime scene investigator. And I figured that out because I had seen a post just on city jobs of, you know, crime scene technician job open, and I was like, well, I'm just gonna apply. And I, I didn't even have my degree yet. And I was like, I'm just gonna see what it is. And I went and I took the like civil service test, which, which I knew nothing about at that time. And I was so excited after taking that test. I was like, I didn't pass that, but I was like, this is what I wanna do.

Grace Joaquin:

Oh, cool. So, when you applied, you didn't get that initial job, but it just put a fire under you to keep -

Mallory Kaysserian:

Yes.

Megan Riksen:

To figure out how to get that.

Mallory Kaysserian:

I think I was a junior in college still uhhuh, and you actually needed a four year degree, but -

Grace Joaquin:

Everyone likes a go-getter

Megan Riksen:

I think that's great.

Mallory Kaysserian:

Right.

Grace Joaquin:

I also love your example of who you connected with because at the Career Center we're always talking about like, thinking outside the box of who your network is. So like your roommate's, boyfriend's, mom. Like, that's totally how this works.

Megan Riksen:

Yeah, it is how this works. Was she able to provide you with like, some details about what she did? Were you like asking those questions?

Mallory Kaysserian:

Yes. So I, I was able to meet with her and ask her whatever she, you know, she was an open book and I ended up going on a ride along with her and as soon as I did that, I was like, this, this is it.

Megan Riksen:

This is really good.

Grace Joaquin:

That's exciting. So you applied in your junior year but weren't qualified.

Mallory Kaysserian:

Right.

Grace Joaquin:

You completed your degree. How, what, was there any like, internships or other experiences before then? How did you get from graduating to your current position?

Mallory Kaysserian:

Yeah, so when I was in my undergrad, I interned doing social security fraud investigation.

Grace Joaquin:

Okay.

Mallory Kaysserian:

So I had had some investigative experience you know, writing reports, do assisting an agent doing these investigations. And then after that I had looked for an internship more in the local police area that was gonna be more focused in on you know, sort of the local scene and law enforcement and forensics.

Grace Joaquin:

Okay. And you got, did you get one, an internship?

Mallory Kaysserian:

Yeah, so I got, at that time I was able to get an internship with the forensics unit. Which I don't think we do anymore.

Grace Joaquin:

Okay.

Mallory Kaysserian:

But at least in our department there's other stuff around the area.

Grace Joaquin:

And then once you had, so you had two great experiences, it sounds like two great internships as a student.

Mallory Kaysserian:

Yes. Yeah.

Grace Joaquin:

And then when you graduated, did you apply for your role and get it?

Mallory Kaysserian:

Yeah, so I was, I was an intern there for a year. And I was actually an intern until another job opening happened. So I still had to go through all the hoops of taking the civil service test, an oral board exam and a final interview. But I had had a year of experience specific to that department, which was helpful.

Grace Joaquin:

That's nice. And we all, I mean, we're huge champions for internships, so I'm glad that that worked out for you.

Megan Riksen:

Just how we would want it to.

Mallory Kaysserian:

Right.

Grace Joaquin:

It's almost like you're a plant.

Mallory Kaysserian:

Right.

Grace Joaquin:

And now, so now that you do that role, what's your favorite part of what you do?

Mallory Kaysserian:

I, I love that it's something different every day. So people think crime scene investigators and they think they're doing homicides, they're catching serial killers. They're like, that's not always realistic, especially in a place like West Michigan.

Grace Joaquin:

Yeah.

Mallory Kaysserian:

So a normal day for me might be processing two or three recovered stolen vehicles.

Grace Joaquin:

Okay.

Mallory Kaysserian:

We do everything from, you know, someone broke into my car to homicides, so it's there, there I should say a normal day. There really is no normal day, but...

Megan Riksen:

But you enjoy that.

Mallory Kaysserian:

I do. Yes.

Grace Joaquin:

When you talk about, and this was maybe something people in the field know better than me, but like processing, like what does that look like? Like what's your -

Megan Riksen:

Yeah. Processing a scene or a car -

Grace Joaquin:

What are you doing?

Mallory Kaysserian:

Yeah, yeah. So we process for fingerprint. So on TV when you see the people with the brush and the fingerprint powder. Yeah. And that, that's real. So with cars especially, that's one of our best ways to process for fingerprints and it's not a very high tech experience. We use scotch tape to lift the prints. And we put 'em on a white piece of like cardboard paper. And so that's how we, you know, a majority of how we process fingerprints. And we'll take dna swabs, it's just a cotton swab. And so that's kind of the majority of our processing. But most of what I do is actually taking pictures.

Grace Joaquin:

Okay.

Mallory Kaysserian:

So documentation is sort of the biggest part of my job. And we take photos of, you know, scenes themself, whether it is evidence on the ground or a damaged car if it was stolen. Stuff like that.

Grace Joaquin:

That sounds so, it, it sounds closer to what we see than I thought it would just like, based on your description. That sounds fun.

Megan Riksen:

But also good that not every day you're dealing with a homicide.

Mallory Kaysserian:

Right.

Grace Joaquin:

I'm sure that would not be fun after a while.

Mallory Kaysserian:

Right.

Megan Riksen:

What is, what are some of the challenging aspects of the role?

Mallory Kaysserian:

For me personally, it was sort of realizing, so you go into this job and it's so exciting and you know how important the work is, but you have to remember that you have to take care of yourself before you can be good at your job. Where I was trying to volunteer to come in on my days off. You know, call me in if something big happens. And, and the longer I was there I realized, you know, you have to put your physical health, your, your mental health, you know, first, and which I'm sure can be for any job. But I really had to take a step back and be like, you need your days off to decompress, recover. The, luckily for law enforcement, at least in West Michigan mental health has really come a long way. It's, it's not as stigmatized as it used to be, so having peer support teams and in my unit we're all very open with, you know, I had this scene, it hit a cord with me like, I need a break. And then your coworkers step in cover for you.

Grace Joaquin:

Sounds like you have a good team you're working with.

Mallory Kaysserian:

Love my team. Yes.

Megan Riksen:

How big is your team?

Mallory Kaysserian:

So I work in a unit that has, we have a supervisor, we have two people that examine fingerprints all day. So if I lift fingerprints from a car, I turn it into them. And then we have eight technicians that cover the streets 24 hours.

Grace Joaquin:

Wow. I'm curious to know, so we kind of talked about how it sounds somewhat similar to what we see on tv, but is there anything you feel like is quite different than what you might see on a TV show or what people might expect for this role?

Mallory Kaysserian:

Yeah. So, so I have watched a lot of the CSI and Criminal Minds and I think there's two big myths that I think are the most prevalent. And one is that, you know, especially on Criminal Minds or CSI, it's the same special agent that goes in, they arrest the suspect, they question 'em, they process the scene, they're doing car chases and it's like realistically that's like three different people's jobs.

Megan Riksen:

Interesting. Yeah. Yeah.

Mallory Kaysserian:

So I don't question suspects or victims or witnesses. You know, that's still very much a police officer's job or a detective's job where I might, you know, process a, a homicide scene and not see a suspect or actually it talk to anybody. It's all physical evidence for some scenes for me. So I would say that's one of the biggest misconceptions is that, you know, the main characters doing three real jobs.

Megan Riksen:

So many jobs. They're so talented.

Mallory Kaysserian:

They are, we should hire them. Yeah. But then the other thing I think would just be the timeline of it. You know, we don't have a magic dna machine that you know, I can put a swab in and have, you know, the magic yellow bars come up and say it's a match to someone I've never actually seen. Right. so 'cause we send our dna swabs and certain samples to the Michigan State Police Lab. And that can take weeks depending on the priority of the call.

Grace Joaquin:

I would imagine too, a lot of times the results would be inconclusive or you wouldn't have matches. I don't know if that's true or not.

Mallory Kaysserian:

Yeah. Truthfully, I don't know that side of things 'cause I'm so, I'm not a scientist. I'm a field technician. So I collect evidence that gets sent to scientists and you're kind of like, here you go. Thank you for what you do. But yeah, and again, the priority, it could, it could take weeks and not every sample's perfect.

Megan Riksen:

Right.

Mallory Kaysserian:

So it's not, I'm sure it's not always a clear cut. This is, you know, this is so and so, or if it's a public, if something happens and it's at a public bus stop or the parking lot of a food restaurant place, it's you know, there could be people's dna in that parking lot from someone who grabbed lunch there two days ago and so it's not as clear cut.

Grace Joaquin:

Yeah. That makes sense.

Megan Riksen:

It does. So do you have advice for students who do wanna get into this field? As Grace was saying, we have lots of students coming in and saying, Ooh, this looks so great. Sure. I wanna do this without maybe some of those, you know, realistic kind of information about that. So yeah. What's your advice for students like, this is me, I wanna do this?

Mallory Kaysserian:

Yeah. advice number one that worked for me was get an internship. It does not have to be in forensics. Mine wasn't like I said, I was doing social security fraud investigation. 'cause Doing those internships, one, it helps with your network. You're getting into the field and meeting people. And then on the other end, it's now going into your next job interview. You have experience with law enforcement report writing. You've been trusted with documents that, you know, the public doesn't have access to. So that would be my biggest thing was, is do an internship. It doesn't, you don't have to be there nine to five every day, but even if it's once or twice a week that, and then just, you know, criminal justice is not your only option to get into forensics. So, you know, look into biology, chemistry. I would say more of the people I know in the field are biology heavy. My degree in criminal justice, so CJ plus internship experience is how I got in. But, and then in outta state there's people that, there are forensic science schools out there, like for master's programs and stuff. If that's what you're looking for. But internship experience can go a long way.

Grace Joaquin:

That's good to know 'cause I, I think that is something that, you know, I wasn't fully sure about the answer of like, do you need science, hard science classes for this? Can you have a criminal justice major? But it sounds like yes, you can, but you also need to pair that with some relevant experience.

Mallory Kaysserian:

Yes. Correct.

Grace Joaquin:

To be, and probably same could be said if you're a biology major. I'm sure you'd also need relevant experience with that as well.

Mallory Kaysserian:

Yeah. Some of my other forensic friends in the area one of them has a, their major was biology and they minored in criminal justice.

Grace Joaquin:

Oh, nice.

Mallory Kaysserian:

So that kind of gave them a foot in both, both paths.

Megan Riksen:

Do you feel like there was a lot, I mean, I think I know the answer to this, but a lot of on the job training or was it a really huge like, onboarding process for you to begin your role? What was that process like?

Mallory Kaysserian:

It's, I would say most of the knowledge I used for my job is from on the job training. Especially because with forensics, just depending on the crime in your area crime is so different everywhere, just geographically, regionally, culturally, wherever you are in the United States and the world. So I was taught on the job training, not only for the basic skills of documentation and processing, but you know, we process a lot of shootings in this area. And so it's, you know, I'm more trained. Like we, I was sent to a training in shooting reconstruction. Where if I was somewhere else where maybe, you know, drug crimes were more prevalent or more of what I did, I would get sent to a different training to address the specific area.

Grace Joaquin:

Yeah. So if you ever wanted to like, move to another area, you might have different focus than you do here.

Mallory Kaysserian:

Correct. Yeah.

Grace Joaquin:

I know you said when you did the ride along with your roommates, boyfriend's mom, that you loved it and it really like helped solidify that that was what you wanted to look into. I'm curious, you know, is there anything, you know, now that you wish you would've known then, or that would've, like, that's different than what you kind of thought back when you were a student doing your first ride along?

Mallory Kaysserian:

Yeah. I think, so. I, I stand by getting my CJ degree. I, I enjoyed it. I, I loved my time here. I would've opted to take more biology, I think. Just to have more background knowledge in sort of the building blocks of what I'm trained to do. So I think that would've been my, if I could go back you know, you don't need to be taking Biology 600 or biochemistry unless you're looking into more of the lab jobs than like the field technician jobs. The dna lab is much more specific and they look into specific classes like, did you take and pass biochem, genetics? But for me, if I could have taken, you know, maybe one or two more biology courses, I think that would've been helpful.

Grace Joaquin:

And we try to also, I'm glad you say that because we try to talk to students that you don't always need a major or even a minor. Sometimes it's just taking like two or three classes that are relevant that you could put on your resume or just to build your knowledge. That can be super helpful.

Mallory Kaysserian:

Exactly.

Megan Riksen:

Awesome. This has been really interesting. Thank you so much for joining us.

Mallory Kaysserian:

Absolutely. Thanks for having me.

Megan Riksen:

I'm hoping that lots of students have been really interested by our episode today, so if they have more questions for you, are you, are you open to students reaching out?

Mallory Kaysserian:

Absolutely. if you wanna share my LinkedIn page, I can message on there. I still have my mail.gvsu.edu email.

Megan Riksen:

Yeah, Linkedin would be great. We'll be sure to add that in the notes.

Mallory Kaysserian:

Yeah. I'm absolutely open to messages and even just connecting if they want me to be a connection with them and yeah, because when I was a student here, I didn't really have that. I'm just so thankful for Grand Valley, so if I can be that person for the next groups coming in, I I'd love that.

Grace Joaquin:

I'm gonna, I'm sorry, I'm gonna, I have one more question I just thought of.

Megan Riksen:

Grace, you gotta get in there.

Grace Joaquin:

This went by too fast. I was so interested in everything you were saying, so I was just, I'm curious to know, because again, this is just a field I don't know too much about myself, is this a career that most people stay in, like for their full career? Or is there like stepping, like, is there anything else that you would potentially move into or do you think this is something that you'll do for kind of indefinitely?

Mallory Kaysserian:

Personally for me, I think this is something I'll do indefinitely. I really like being out in the public, interacting with people, meeting people working with our police officers. And I enjoy the physical aspect of it. There are people that get into crime scene work and enjoy the streets for a little bit, but then maybe they move into our fingerprint examination office or maybe they go into the lab after having, you know, 10 years of experience. So really it could be either. Depending on what your preferences are.

Grace Joaquin:

Well, it's definitely a good sign that you love it enough that you want to stay.

Mallory Kaysserian:

Yeah, I do.

Megan Riksen:

You want to stay.That's so good.

Grace Joaquin:

I think you were the perfect person to talk to us about this topic.

Mallory Kaysserian:

No, I'm glad you reached out. I'm, I'm happy to be here.

Megan Riksen:

Well, thank you so much for your time.

Mallory Kaysserian:

Thank you.

Megan Riksen:

All right. So thank you so much to everyone for listening, and we hope you tune in to a future episode soon.