Megan Riksen:

Hello and welcome to the work like Laker podcast. I'm Megan Riksen, and today I am joined by Brian Bossick. Hi Brian.

Brian Bossick:

Hi Megan.

Megan Riksen:

And we are bringing in a third guest co-host today, Dani Lauer. Hi Dani.

Dani Lauer:

Hi. How's it going?

Megan Riksen:

Great. So since you're new here, could you give us just a quick little intro of yourself?

Dani Lauer:

Absolutely. So I started working in the career center around the end of February, and prior to that I was working in the College of Liberal Arts and Sciences Academic Advising Center. I was an academic advisor and worked with a handful of Grand Valley majors as well as pre-med students. Very happy to be here.

Megan Riksen:

Yes. And we are happy to have you not only on this podcast, but also in our office. So welcome.

Dani Lauer:

Thank you.

Megan Riksen:

Yeah, so a lot of the work in the career center is centered on helping students get to where they want to go after graduation. In a lot of cases that could be a job or graduate school, but there's also a third option that we haven't talked much about on this podcast, and that would be something called a gap year or a service year. So my question for each of you is, have you done one of those? Dani, we'll start with you.

Dani Lauer:

Yeah. So in a non-intentional way, I did do a gap year when I graduated from my undergrad in central Michigan. I did an internship and then I worked for a campus organization and grad school was not something I thought about. And through those experiences, I really realized that my master's was the next step for me. And so it was very helpful. I built a lot of important skills, learned a ton, and then realized that going on for my master's was the next right thing.

Megan Riksen:

Great. What about you, Brian?

Brian Bossick:

No. So no gap year went right from undergrad to then grad school and from there.

Megan Riksen:

Okay. Right. So kind of good. We see both sides of the coin here. That's great. All right. So Brian, what is a gap year? Can you fill us in? Can you tell us more?

Brian Bossick:

Absolutely. No, I think Dani, your story was a great illustration of like, gap years can be intentional, unintentional. And they, they provide a chance to try something different. So typically it allows a student to take a break from one thing and try something new. And sometimes it's a year, sometimes it's a little bit more or sometimes a little bit less. They tend to be intentional experiences where people learn about themselves, their interests, their potential career paths they might wanna pursue. Sometimes it's right after people graduate especially if you're not sure of what type of job or like your desire for that job changes mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. and you're just not ready if you're thinking about graduate school, but you're not ready to jump into that. That's another great reason to think about a gap here.

Megan Riksen:

Yeah. It's a good like pivot point.

Brian Bossick:

Yeah, exactly.

Megan Riksen:

Right? Kind of like, here's what I was doing in undergrad. If I wanna do something else, let's take this year or two to kind of do something completely different that can then transfer hopefully to what you wanna do in the future.

Brian Bossick:

And oftentimes you need to, you need to take time to figure that out.

Brian Bossick:

And sometimes it's really hard if you're following the same path to really set the mental, physical emotional, like the, the actual time to do that.

Megan Riksen:

Agreed.

Brian Bossick:

So, fun fact. How many people do you think take a gap year each year? Any guesses?

Dani Lauer:

No.

Megan Riksen:

Don't know.

Dani Lauer:

I feel like it's a big number, but yeah, I'm sure

Megan Riksen:

It feels like it's increasing, right?

Brian Bossick:

Yes. I hear it more and more naturally.

Megan Riksen:

It seems pretty popular.

Brian Bossick:

So according to the gap year association out of Oregon -

Megan Riksen:

Who knew that was a thing?

Brian Bossick:

I did not, but it is now. It is the GYA and it is estimated that between 40 and 60,000 students participate in a gap year each year.

Megan Riksen:

Okay. That's great.

Brian Bossick:

Yeah.

Dani Lauer:

Significant.

Brian Bossick:

It really is. And I, and like I said, I think you're right. It's, it feels like it's a number that's growing too. So other question that kind of often comes up is, what does a gap year look like? Couple things. So the experiences are certainly not one set of straight form experiences. They can, they can take on many different forms. For those that choose more of a self-guided route, they might include traveling, working, or volunteering. This route often allows participants to create an experience based on their own interest and, and what they really hope to get out of it. The other option is participating in more of a structured program. These are accredited organizations that as a student you can apply for and complete the experience through. So quite often you'll see these programs focusing on humanitarian efforts ecology and environmental work language and cultural development, education, and just so many more. So really there's, there's so many different ways to approach it, whether it's through yourself or something that's kind of set out there as well.

Megan Riksen:

Right, like you think about a program like the Peace Corps that could check many of those boxes.

Brian Bossick:

Yes, exactly.

Megan Riksen:

You can do many different things within the Peace Corps. But the program as a whole is kind of set up for these like two or three year stints.

Dani Lauer:

Yeah. Like a short term. You have something you're gonna go do after that.

Megan Riksen:

Exactly. You know, this is not a forever in the Peace Corps working in Kazakhstan or wherever they send you.

Brian Bossick:

It reminds me sometimes of study abroad and talking to students about study abroad. Because Some of those are so prescriptive and it's a really sad time and others, you kind of create your experience

Megan Riksen:

For sure. Yeah. Awesome.

Brian Bossick:

So that often brings up the question of we know the what. We don't know the why right now. So why would you do a gap year? So Dani, I'll kick it to you. Why would somebody go for a gap year?

Dani Lauer:

Yeah, I think there's a lot of different reasons why someone might do that. And the first one that just comes to mind is it really gives students or anyone an opportunity to really test out a career they may be interested in or maybe they don't know a lot about. It gives you that time to just kind of see, especially if it's something where you're going into it for a year or you know, maybe less than that. You kind of get to dip your toe in the water a little bit and it can be a great way to gain experience if you didn't get a chance to do an internship. These types of things look great on a resume, right? You're getting additional experience, you're building skills and you know, you might be working with a different culture, using different languages possibly engaged in work that you haven't done before. And so it's a really great opportunity to try new things, learn something new, and, you know, build something on your resume that you might not have had right out of undergrad. I think that's a huge piece of, of taking a gap year, is, you know, looking at your resume and seeing what's missing. What do I need to, you know, continue to build on or what do I need to kind of fill in a gap year can be such a wonderful way to really build on that.

Megan Riksen:

Did you see that a lot with the students you worked with in CLAS advising?

Dani Lauer:

Absolutely. Yeah. Especially I worked with students who were looking to go to medical school and we would often assess, you know, that piece of it, right? Of what are medical school is looking for and you can apply that to really any professional school, any graduate school. What things are they looking for in an applicant and maybe what one or two things could you specifically focus on during a gap year to really, you know, be a more competitive applicant when that time comes to apply.

Megan Riksen:

Because yeah, for so many programs, it's not just the academic piece of it, right? You could have a 4.0 and have done all the bio and chem and everything you need for med school, but if you haven't had any hands on anything, it's not going to be the strongest application I would assume.

Dani Lauer:

Absolutely. Yeah. And school admissions committees would tell us that as advisors. All the time. And you can even think about that, you know, the opposite way too, right? You might have all this great experience, but maybe you haven't taken some of those classes yet or you need to retake those classes to increase your GPA or you know, build that piece of it too. And so there's different ways. I've seen students do that as well. Sometimes that's called a post-bach program.

Megan Riksen:

Okay. Say more about that.

Dani Lauer:

Yeah, so a post-bach would be, they offer them unstructured or unstructured formats. So essentially it just means taking additional classes after graduation. So if you think about that term, post-baccalaureate.

Megan Riksen:

Good point.

Dani Lauer:

Mm-Hmm. And so it's just an additional amount of coursework that oftentimes schools, depending on how they calculate your GPA, they might actually look at those classes separately, which could, which could be helpful, kind of look that fresh start. Yeah.

Megan Riksen:

If you maybe had a rough like transition into college or something and your first and second year GPA wasn't great and yeah.

Dani Lauer:

Yeah. So we're seeing those become more and more popular. And sometimes that looks like a master's program. Other schools are starting to offer what's called a certificate, a post-BAC certificate. And so maybe just a shorter amount of time a year program where students are able to just kind of take those higher level science classes for, I'm thinking more around the lines of healthcare professional schools, but can be really, really helpful in, again, making yourself a competitive applicant for a graduate program.

Brian Bossick:

It's really encouraging to think about too that whether it was from a pivot because the start was difficult or you changed your mind, right, that you can actually go back and finish and, and get things going in the path you want to.

Dani Lauer:

Absolutely. Yeah. Like a career changer kind of post-back program. Those, those are definitely helpful. So, and I think if nothing else, you know, gap years can be a great way to just recharge, reevaluate what's important to you and how you might accomplish your goals. You know, taking a time to focus on physical and mental health, just having that time where maybe you're just not putting as much pressure on yourself and can really start to refine your goals and figure out what your next steps are.

Megan Riksen:

Yeah, it's not the forever thing. You're not looking at decades of doing the same thing, which we know really isn't true for anyone anymore, but especially coming right out of college, it can be a kind of freeing experience.

Dani Lauer:

Absolutely. Yeah. So yeah, now that we're, I mean we're kinda talking through the why, but I'm sure people as they're listening are thinking about, okay, well how do I find these experiences? So Megan, how do we do that? What does that look like?

Megan Riksen:

Yeah. So I feel like there's a few different ways of going about it. One would be a little bit more unstructured, where you are kind of the one who's creating your own gap year experience. So maybe that means you're, you only know you're gonna be with an organization for a year. Maybe you're even upfront about that with them. But you kind of say, I really want x, y, Z experience, so I'm gonna do this job for a year or two. You know, that's gonna take a lot of planning and budgeting and things on your part. If you're really, you know, putting something together for yourself. But then there's the other option of working with an accredited organization. There are so many of these now and you've probably heard of a lot of them. So things like AmeriCorps Peace Corps, which I had mentioned Teach for America, the Student concert base, concert Conservation Association, Health Corps, so many. And really the timelines on these do differ from organization to organization. You might find one year commitments, you might find things that are in the US you might find things that are abroad, right. Teaching English abroad, that's a super common gap year experience. And you know, then you're getting a lot of great experience even in another country. So you know, regardless of the route you take, you want to be mindful of what you hope to gain from your gap year, as we've kind of mentioned over and over. 'cause That intentionality is gonna help you narrow down what you want to do. You know, so if you're looking at more of the unstructured opportunity, that really is going to be very similar to kind of launching a job or internship search in terms of how to find it. Right. You're doing some research, you're figuring out what you wanna do and then you're starting to apply or you know, if it's something where you're doing volunteer work, you're connecting with organizations to make that happen. With a lot of these accredited organizations, they actually can have a pretty long timeline, wouldn't you say?

Brian Bossick:

Definitely.

Megan Riksen:

Like, I don't know exactly for like Peace Corps and Teach for America, but I know that is a pretty intense application and interview process. I've heard that as well.

Dani Lauer:

Yes. Multiple rounds, multiple rounds.

Megan Riksen:

You might do group interviews, individual interviews, zoom in person. Yeah. There, there can be a lot. So, you know, it all starts with the application itself. So you, if you are looking at any of these kind of accredited organizations you wanna just start getting on their websites as soon as possible. They're gonna have all the information, like timelines when you should apply and then what that process looks like moving forward. But you also will wanna come into the career center for help with that because you're gonna still need a resume. You might need a cover letter. I know in a lot of these cases you might need to write an essay where maybe even be similar to applying to a grad school in that way. So yeah, I think doing the research ahead of time, like with anything else is always gonna set you up for success.

Brian Bossick:

I think coming in here too, you may be able to talk to somebody who's worked with other students who've done this. Right. And so if it isn't one of us, it may be one of our colleagues and say, hey, you can reach out to this person. They just went through this process and they can kind of help you out as well.

Megan Riksen:

Absolutely. Yeah. I think that piece of networking with other people and even just getting some information on what the interview process looks like. Getting tips on how to answer questions and really working through that process of, you know, what are they looking for in these types of experiences and how can I tell my story in a way that you know, is going to resonate. Absolutely. Yeah. Some of these are pretty competitive, so yeah, whatever information you can glean from others is going to be helpful. So,

Brian Bossick:

And sometimes just talking you through makes your why a lot clearer.

Megan Riksen:

That's right.

Brian Bossick:

So like, you may have an idea, this sounds great, but why,why does, and if you talk it through, then you can kind of figure that out out as well.

Megan Riksen:

Absolutely. Great. Well thank you both so much. Now we're gonna actually jump over to hear from a GVSU alum twice over. She got both her bachelor's degree and her master's from GV. Her name is Jaclyn and she spent about a year as a member of AmeriCorps. So we're gonna hear from her and what her experience was like.

Jaclyn Ermoyan:

Hello, my name is Jaclyn Ermoyan and I am a graduate from Grand Valley State University. I graduated in 2017 with a bachelor's degree in advertising and public relations and two minors in nonprofit administration and international relations. I completed a gap year after I graduated with my undergrad with AmeriCorps and Triple C. It's a 10 month national service program. It stands for the National Civilian Community Corps. I was based in the Southern United States and hit eight states in 10 months doing all natural disaster response service work in the southern region. So I hit states like Mississippi, Florida, Texas, Alabama, North Carolina, Kentucky, just to name a few. They were all impacted by hurricanes or tornadoes or severe weather flooding during that time. So I was able to go and serve in that capacity.

Megan Riksen:

What made you decide to pursue a gap year?

Jaclyn Ermoyan:

That's a great question. I really didn't want to pursue the corporate world right away. I had an abundance of work experience and felt like this was the best time for me to do a program like this. And in hindsight, I was absolutely right. I did in alternative spring break program my senior year at Grand Valley to try to give myself a little bit of a, you know, to, to tip my toes in, stick my toes in a little bit to get to know the program and get to know what service would be like. And I'm very glad that I did that. So my alternative spring break at Grand Valley my senior year really did help me decide to pursue a gap year. During that program I stayed in North Asheville, North Carolina and worked with the Y M C A on sorting food donations and going out to different food distribution sites to reach communities in need. With that experience, I learned that I really want to be making a difference and learning about real issues with hands-on experience. I wanted to be learning more about what it meant to be hungry in America and what it meant to have different health issues when it, and how it's related to income and where you're located and what access to food you have. So I really wanted to get the experience working with some of these bigger societal issues. So that's pretty much what made me decide to pursue a gap year.

Megan Riksen:

That sounds like an impactful experience. So from there, how did you decide to apply?

Jaclyn Ermoyan:

It was actually a really hard decision to decide where I wanted to apply for a gap year. I had learned a lot about the Peace Corps program, but that was honestly really intimidating to me because the application process is so vigorous and of course that is international, so I could have been stationed anywhere and the program length is a lot longer. And, you know, I did have to start working at some point and I do have bills to pay. So that wasn't really an option that I was considering, even if it's what I had learned the most about. And so it is actually 100% thanks to my Grand Valley State University Cook Leadership Academy mentor. His name is Jordan O'Neill, and I was partnered with him through the C l A program and kind of talked to him about wanting to take a gap year and wanting to be involved in my community and learn about these social societal, global complex issues with this hands-on experience.

Jaclyn Ermoyan:

And very thankfully, my mentor Jordan was able to put me in contact with somebody who had previously completed AmeriCorps and Triple C. So I met with her and I already had my application done at that point. I remember I met with her in Grand Rapids and I brought it printed out. That way she could give me advice because I, at this point was really excited about the program and really wanted to get in. But she was able to tell me a lot more about it and just encouraged me to do it. I can't think of any specific information she gave me that wasn't already, you know, publicly available online or on the website, but it was just how passionate she was about doing it. All you have to do is get out there because if you don't, you now, you probably never will. But also these experiences will mean the most to you, like you'll always have these two look back on in this time. So I completely still dedicate this, you know, decision of mine to my Cook Leadership Academy mentor Jordan O'Neill because he told me about the program and encouraged me to do it and helped me get the resources to do it right, like making that connection. And they were both right. I am forever thankful. This was something that I look back on and just can't imagine having ever learned these experiences anywhere else. And it almost feels like an internal, an entire lifetime, excuse me. That this program was because I traveled and I worked with multiple different organizations and people who were the most diverse from me. We lived and worked together, traveled together, ate meals together for 10 months. And I just learned so much that, you know, this is a little cliche, but you can't get it in a classroom and you can't get it in the workplace. Right. Or, or if you do, it takes a lot longer. And so I am, I'm very thankful that I did take a gap year and I am very thankful for Grand Valley, the alternative breaks program, the Cook Leadership Academy program that encouraged me to apply.

Megan Riksen:

We love to hear that you gained so much from our Grand Valley programs During your gap year. What did you like the most?

Jaclyn Ermoyan:

I think what I liked most about the experience was being able to travel, but also to get my hands dirty. So in college I worked multiple jobs, was involved in student organizations, was a full-time student like you name it, I was around, I was involved and I was working my tail off. But with that came, you know, sitting at my laptop for some 12, 14 hours a day with these various jobs, assignments, organizations, classes. And so this program was the complete opposite of that. I shingled roofs and I learned how to operate a chainsaw and slept on a cot and, you know, we only had some, a couple dollars a day to use for food and I lived and worked in the same place, which is a learning adjustment and with the same people. And so it was just very educational. So I guess that's not, that's a lot of things about what I liked most, but really it was being able to work with just so many different organizations and so many people, you know, now I feel like I have something that's relevant to almost any interview that I'm going through now, right? Like, oh, I actually spent a month in Mississippi and I actually built a boardwalk through Savannah, Georgia, and I was in Texas for Hurricane Harvey and worked with survivors with the American Red Cross and Team Rubicon. And, you know, <laugh> at, if I were to have been immediately working full time, it just would've taken a lot longer to get those various experiences and it would've been a lot harder to take the time off. But being able to travel and get my hands dirty, do these work experiences that I never would've imagined myself doing, it was just incredibly impactful and I am so incredibly thankful.

Megan Riksen:

Wow. It's so fun to hear about your experience. It sounds like a once in a lifetime opportunity that you had. And now finally, do you have any advice for those students who are thinking of taking a gap year?

Jaclyn Ermoyan:

If I were to give students considering a gap year, a piece of advice, it would simply be to do it real life comes at you real fast. Like real fast. And there's no other time like the present. You have to live your life how you want to and what this means to me and what I would like to tell, you know, future students considering something like this or current, certain considering like this, something for the future, not only just to do it, but to listen to your quiet thoughts. If it's the voice in the back of your mind that's just like, what if I didn't accept this job after graduation and instead I delayed it a year and did X, Y, and Z because I've always wanted to, or I would learn so much, or even if it just, heck, that sounds really interesting to me. Listen to those quiet voices because they mean a lot. And if that quiet voice is saying, Hey, I'm considering a gap year, the biggest piece of advice I have for you is just to do it. Real life comes so fast and there's always going to be a time to find the first job and to work the 40 hours a week and to, to have that. And you wanna know what jobs change, which honestly isn't something that I had thought very much as a student. I thought once I had a full-time job that that was kind of it, and that's what my future looked like. But that's not true. Jobs change, jobs can come and go and employers come and go. Teams come and go. So put yourself first if you think that you want to do something like this. Absolutely. Absolutely. Just, just do it.

Megan Riksen:

Great advice. Thank you.

Jaclyn Ermoyan:

Thank you so much for having me. This has been really fun. I'm always happy to talk to students and to talk about my experience. And, you know, I have since gone on and gotten a master's degree while working full time and I'm still juggling this, volunteering in my community with working and volunteering and how I want to be making these impacts. You know, making a paycheck while also making a difference. And so if anybody has any questions, they can absolutely reach out to me, be in touch with the career center, all of those things because the time in college is the biggest opportunity you have. And use it, do the program, utilize the people at the career center, listen to the podcast, and hopefully it, it helps. Everything will be okay. So thank you again for having me.

Megan Riksen:

All right, well that concludes our podcast for today. Thank you so much to everyone for listening, and we hope you tune in to a future episode soon.