Megan Riksen:

Hello, and welcome to the Work Like a Laker podcast. I'm Megan Riksen, and today my co-host is Brian Bossick. Hi Brian.

Brian Bossick:

Hey Megan.

Megan Riksen:

And today we are tackling the subject of disabilities in the workplace. So, to talk us through this subject, we have invited a special guest. Jason Osborne is the Senior Disability Advisor for the Disability Support Resources Office here at GVSU. Hi Jason.

Jason Osborne:

Hi Megan. Thank you for having me.

Megan Riksen:

Absolutely. We are so glad to have you. So can you just begin by telling us a little bit about your role here at Grand Valley?

Jason Osborne:

Sure. I've been in this department for the last 14 years, and my main focus is to do student intake work with professors on how to accommodate students, get their accommodations set up, and, you know, basically just level the playing field for success in the classroom for the

Megan Riksen:

Students. Wonderful. Great. And we actually had the opportunity to work with you in the career center. Even you've, you've collaborated with us quite a bit.

Jason Osborne:

Yes, yes.

Megan Riksen:

Yeah, so that's great. That's, that's why we, we thought of you first for this episode. We thought Jason will be great, so yeah, thank you. Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, we're, we're talking about disabilities in the workplace, which can certainly present themselves in multiple ways. This can be physical, mental, they might be visible or invisible disabilities. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, it might be a disability. A person is born with something, they developed something temporary, something permanent. Yeah. So we're kind of talking about everything. And when you define it that way, according to the cdc, nearly one in four Americans have a disability. So that's true. The chances are that you work with someone, you are someone, you have been someone, or you even might become someone with a disability in the future. So this is, this is an important topic.

Jason Osborne:

Absolutely. People need to realize that they could acquire a disability at any minute.

Megan Riksen:

Isn't that wild? Yes.

Jason Osborne:

Nobody's immune to it, so yes, it's, it's best to learn all you can, you know, about accommodations and different disabilities Yep. And who needs what.

Megan Riksen:

Great. Yeah. So just to kind of set or set the stage for the conversation, can you just explain what the American With Disabilities Act is and what that might mean for students as they apply to jobs and internships? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>

Jason Osborne:

In a nutshell, the ADA American Disabilities Act is a group. It, it was started in 1990, I mean back further too, but it really got its teeth in 1990. And what it is, it's just a bunch of laws, protections so that students with disabilities or employees with disabilities are not being discriminated against.

Brian Bossick:

Jason, if, if someone is considering, let's say like a job site for an internship or, or an official job are there certain things they should keep in mind? If they're thinking, Hey, you know, this is something, is this gonna be a good place for me to work If I am, if like, do I disclose my disability? Do I think about this? Or are there certain things ahead of time they should be looking

Jason Osborne:

At? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> absolutely. Kind of, you know, of course Perus a website, kind of get a feeling for the culture and everything. And then I always tell a student, unless they need an accommodation for the interview, keep that quiet until they get the job Okay. And find out if they need to use accommodations, then disclose.

Megan Riksen:

Okay. Then disclose. Okay. Yes. Yeah, that's good advice. Yeah. Brian, do you have any other thoughts on kind of like workplace culture in general and things students might wanna look for? Absolutely.

Brian Bossick:

Yeah. I think when you look at a website, there might be certain images posted on there that would suggest that it would be a good company culture. It's an inclusive culture. Is there a diversity and inclusion department that's mentioned on the website? Do you see information about affinity groups? I mean, even is their website accessible? So I, I think as Jason mentioned going there is a great starting place and then doing a deeper dive to see what else you might find as well.

Megan Riksen:

Yeah, that's great. And I think, and Jason, you can tell us if you agree, but what about like the questions you ask during an interview that, not necessarily that you're disclosing your disability through those questions, but you know, something like, what does your onboarding and training look like? Would those be good questions you think to kind of get at the root of what we're trying to uncover?

Jason Osborne:

Definitely. Yeah. And then maybe ask if there is a inclusion and equity department. Yeah. You know, if, if you can't find that, you know, during the, you know, and kind of ask about company culture and stuff. Or maybe ask if you could talk to an employee in the department,

Megan Riksen:

You know, super smart

Jason Osborne:

Idea privately just to get Yes. The low down, you know, so. Right. Yeah. That's what I would recommend.

Megan Riksen:

Yeah. Those are all I think great things to do because Right. The company can, they can make themselves look good on a website. Sure. They can Right <laugh> Yeah. But we're try, we're trying to get that, that really accurate picture there, so Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Definitely take advantage of those interview questions. Yes. So good. Okay. So we've kind of covered maybe what to consider pre-employment. But let's, let's get into the nitty gritty a little bit of when a student or an employee might decide to disclose why they would disclose once they're hired. Kind of some of the reasons around that.

Jason Osborne:

Sure. Absolutely. So, you know, once they get, like I say, if they need an accommodation or to help them do their job Yep. Or, you know, be more comfortable at work, then they would ask HR, go to Human Resources or the diversity office or wherever. And then that's where they'll disclose and then provide the documents their medical documentation that diagnosis lists the diagnosis, recommendations for accommodations and so forth.

Megan Riksen:

Okay. Great. And yeah, can you define in in your own words, kind of what is a reasonable accommodation? Cause I feel like you hear that term a lot. Like what's reasonable? Yeah.

Jason Osborne:

Well, a reasonable, it shouldn't cause a hardship to the company or the school and you know, like for instance, asking for a golf cart on campus, that is not a reasonable accommodation. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> Sure. But maybe van access to where, you know, they, they could use our van, but that's not required by the ADA. We just do that, you know. Yep. To be more accessible for students, that's, but you don't have to. Sure. So you know, a adapting work schedules or reassigning to a better suited position or you know, technology that's a good very good type of accommodation. You know, a lot of technology these days. People need help with. So those are reasonable ones and unreasonable.

Brian Bossick:

Oh. So Jason you mentioned too, like as the, as folks provide documentation, I think that's one of the concerns I'll sometimes hear is like, how much do I have to provide and how much detail do I have to give to say my employer or to my school or, or to wherever to talk about this.

Jason Osborne:

They usually have their own requirements, but I know Grand Valley, they, we want it to have the diagnosis. It's gotta be on letterhead. It's gotta be newer than five years old and it's gotta give some recommendations for accommodations and whatnot and the testing that was used to come up with a diagnosis. Okay.

Brian Bossick:

Thanks Jason. I, I think the other thing that kind of ties into this, we've talked about documentation and what students might need to provide. What are some of the things they should consider or think about before they decide to disclose

Jason Osborne:

Well, what accommodation would work best for them and they could get discriminated against. Unfortunately, because some employers are not familiar with the laws, they, you know, might not be willing to accommodate. I mean, it's very illegal, but you know, sometimes they can get away

Megan Riksen:

It can happen, right. Yeah. It's too bad.

Jason Osborne:

Yeah. So they might want to be prepared for that as well and then know how to take action if that happens.

Brian Bossick:

Okay. And Jason, do they have to disclose right at the start of a job or let's say they, they get into that job and they realize like, I thought I could and I really could actually use help Right now

Jason Osborne:

They do not have to disclose until they feel they need it. And I always advise them not to, you know? Okay. Yeah.

Megan Riksen:

All right. So when, when we're thinking about navigating the workplace, Jason, what are some things that our employer partners, some of the employers we work with can do to help make their workplace more inclusive to students with disabilities?

Jason Osborne:

I would start by learning the ADA law and then maybe take some trainings, provide some trainings for employees, you know, on diversity and how to deal with people who may have a disability, how to hand what language to use, that kind of stuff. And then you know, just create an inclusive environment like what Brian said on the website, maybe have an employee in a wheelchair or you know, have people of color on there. You know, that kind of stuff is really what I would

Megan Riksen:

Recommend. Sure. And are affinity groups something that you've seen at companies and organizations where you know, students or you know, the employees can potentially find others with disabilities and Yes. You know, kind of find support through that?

Jason Osborne:

Yeah. Meijer, Steelcase, Herman Miller are absolutely excellent when it comes to affinity groups in providing accommodations. Yeah. In fact, they welcome it. They really welcome hiring a diverse workforce.

Megan Riksen:

That's great. Yes. That's great. Awesome.

Jason Osborne:

Quicken Loans is good too, down in Detroit. Okay.

Brian Bossick:

He is excellent. Yeah.

Megan Riksen:

Yeah. Nice. We'll hit the east side there. Yeah.

Brian Bossick:

Perfect. <laugh>.

Megan Riksen:

Good deal. So now to kind of end our conversation, we want to just do a couple of scenarios. Sure. So I'm gonna read two scenarios with completely made up <laugh> information. This is, this is not about real people. And then we'll all kind of chat about, you know, what that student might wanna consider. Okay. So scenario number one, A student with an invisible disability has an interview coming up for a job. Her disability can often make it difficult to focus on specific tasks for extended periods of time. She is wondering if this is something she should disclose during the interview. What's your advice?

Jason Osborne:

No, I would wait because she doesn't know. I mean, she hasn't done the position yet and it might be easy, you know, she might be able to do it. So I would wait until she feels that she needs it and then I ask.

Megan Riksen:

Yep.

Brian Bossick:

Yeah. And this seems to really hit on that point you mentioned before that it doesn't have to be at the beginning, right. You can get a of your job and what you need and Okay.

Jason Osborne:

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Megan Riksen:

Awesome. Okay, so scenario number two. A student who uses a wheelchair mentions to you that he is having a difficult time fitting in at his internship. He's noticed the other interns socializing with their supervisors through golf outings and other activities that are difficult for the student to participate in. While there doesn't seem to be direct discrimination happening, it feels as though the student is being intentionally left out, which he's worried may affect future opportunities. What advice would you give him?

Jason Osborne:

I would maybe pull somebody aside, you know, one of those people explain how they're feeling or maybe have them create opportunities to do stuff together and invite them, you know, with something that they feel that they can do. Yeah. That may open, you know,

Megan Riksen:

Just take them off. Yeah. Some opportunities. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> as well. Opportunity. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. That's great. Do you think kind of working directly with your supervisor, like his supervisor in that case, should that be the person he's approaching or do you think it's okay to kind of, you know, approach anyone that, that he might be comfortable with?

Jason Osborne:

Well, I, I mean, there isn't gonna be a lot of supervisor can do, so I would say do go directly to a person that's making you feel that way. And if you approach it gracefully and explain how you're feeling, I, I see no problem with that.

Megan Riksen:

Good deal. All right. So that is our scenarios and I, you know, I think this is obviously a topic where we could go into a lot more detail, but hopefully all of our listeners have, you know, gotten the chance to think through some of these pieces. I think especially that the, you know, fact you mentioned disclosure is voluntary mm-hmm. <Affirmative> and you can do it whenever you need it. Yeah. Is a really big point. Yeah. And Jason, I know you work here at Grand Valley and you're working with our G V S U students, but if an alum gets in the workplace and they're struggling with a question, is D S R still available for a question or some advice, things like that from you

Jason Osborne:

All? Absolutely. and that happens quite often.

Megan Riksen:

Does it? Okay.

Jason Osborne:

It does. Yeah. And see I also do career, you know, exploration and stuff.

Megan Riksen:

Yeah, sure.

Jason Osborne:

So I'm the main contact if somebody has an alumni or current student, doesn't matter, so Okay.

Megan Riksen:

More than happy.

Jason Osborne:

Awesome.

Megan Riksen:

To help them. Awesome. Yeah, I think that's really good to know. Yeah,

Brian Bossick:

I do too. And I think it it, what's the word I'm looking for? Like harkens home, the point that if you have a question, it's better to ask, right? Sure. You're prepared going into an interview, feel prepared that you know what's gonna come

Jason Osborne:

Up. Yeah. Yes, for sure. Absolutely.

Megan Riksen:

Great. And we will list out some additional resources in our show notes. We'll link of course to Disability Support Resources here at GVSU, but there are a couple of other great websites that we can refer you to as well. So be sure to check those out if you're looking for some additional resources. Definitely. Well, thank you Jason, for coming today.

Jason Osborne:

Yeah, absolutely.

Megan Riksen:

Really appreciated your perspective and know how on this topic, <laugh>. So that's it for our show today. Thank you so much to everyone for listening, and we hope you tune in to a future episode soon.