Megan Riksen:

Hello and welcome to the Work Like a Laker podcast. I'm your host, Megan Riksen, and to talk about jobs in federal government. With me today is Grace Pushman. So Grace, to get us started, if you had to work a job in the federal government, what job would it be?

Grace Pushman:

My favorite place to travel other than Disney World are National Parks. Yeah. So I think maybe a national park ranger, um, just because I, I mean, there's such lovely places to be, right? So can you imagine like waking up every day and you in

Megan Riksen:

in Yellowstone? Yeah. Yeah.

Grace Pushman:

Right. And that's what I would choose. That's my favorite. It. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but then again, I also feel like I am kind of, and I wouldn't say I'm high maintenance, but like to be outside every day. Yeah. I think it would be a challenge for me. So it'd be like, if I could do a job for a summer, yes. That's what I would choose. I think it'd be a great, like a little season or a year. Like a, yeah. Just like a, you know, probably not for my career, but I would, I think that would be amazing. Yeah. What would you do for a federal job if you could choose?

Megan Riksen:

Um, so I really like languages, so I think I would probably choose like a translator for the United Nations or something

Grace Pushman:

Like that, or a French major. Right. So would that be the language or would you like try to learn.

Megan Riksen:

Different? I think definitely would be French. Yes. Yes. I would need a lot more work and probably need to live in a French speaking country for a while to get...

Grace Pushman:

Which wouldn't be a bad deal, would be amazing. Yeah. I think it do this out. Yeah.

Megan Riksen:

So yeah. In addition to these couple of examples that we mentioned, another role in the government is working for the Secret Service, and today we are really lucky to have an interview with a former Secret Service agent. His name is Ben Witt. Um, but we, before we get to our interview with Ben, Grace, do you wanna just start with maybe giving some resume tips for students interested in this field?

Grace Pushman:

Yes. So, you know, if you're applying for a federal position, resumes can be a little specific. Like they want, um, certain things that not other resumes always are looking for. Usually we kind of tell students a lot of resumes kind of are similar throughout the different, you know, fields. But, um, with the government resume, a couple things you wanna keep in mind is that you do want it to, uh, pretty standard as far as the format. Like read it left to right up, up to bottom to top. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> no, top to bottom.

Megan Riksen:

Yeah. Don't, don't do bottom to top. Yeah.

Grace Pushman:

Yeah. So have it kind of be standard black and white, nothing too fancy with the format. And then as far as the content to put on there, it is going to be pretty similar to other resumes. And honestly, it looks similar to a lot of other resumes too. However, you will include some information that you normally wouldn't include on a resume, such as how much you were paid at your jobs that you're gonna put on there. So any work experience you're going to put, if you were part-time, full-time, what your pay was, whether that's hourly or salaried, um, you might put your supervisor's names on there, which again, typically you would have that on a reference page separate, right? Uh, potentially. But, um, you'd probably put your supervisor's names and then, you know, if you have worked for the government before, you wanna put the level that you were at on the resume. You might also put that your, um, if you are a US citizen or your citizenship status might be put directly on your resume. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So there are some just like specific details like that,

Megan Riksen:

That they kind of just need to know.

Grace Pushman:

Yeah. And, and we do have, um, on our career communities webpage, so if you go to the Grand Valley Career Center website, there's a tab at the top that says join a career community. And when you click that, if you go to the human and public service community, which typically federal government jobs would fall under. Yep. Uh, there is a, like a button at the bottom of the page that says, I think like federal resume tips or something in it like that, that you can look at and it'll give you more info.

Megan Riksen:

Right. Yeah. Cause it is a little bit more formulaic than your average resume.

Grace Pushman:

Yeah. And you, you, a few, you don't, if you Google, like, you don't have to follow the very specific format that they show you, but you more or less wanna kind of go with that. Yeah.

Megan Riksen:

Yeah. Yeah. Makes sense. Yeah. So in addition to tailoring your resume, you will probably also wanna keep in mind that the application process itself is going to be a little different than, um, what you might be used to or what you might kind of be considering. Um, because it's not uncommon for the process to take 10 to 12 months to get hired in. And that can even be for internships, which just seems wild. Um, and that's, that's really for any federal government position. So for example, if you are at all interested in interning with the fbi, you'll probably wanna start your application no later than the fall of your junior year. Um, if you're following kind of that traditional graduation path so that you can get hired in before your senior year, um, background checks are obviously gonna be a big part of that. And then the interview process, um, just might be a little bit more intense, a little bit more lengthy, um, than in some other fields. So it's kind, you know, they're checking you out.

Grace Pushman:

Yes, exactly. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you're under a little bit more scrutiny than a typical job. I know my cousin, this was like 15 years ago, she, I believe it was the FBI that she applied for, and she got super far in the process. It, this wasn't an internship, it was for like a full-time position. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, she got very far in the process. I think she was like one of the final two people mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And they gave her a lie detector test. They went and they interviewed basically everyone in her life, including a roommate she'd had like 10 years prior. Oh my God. So they really do, they are very, um, extensive in looking at candidates. I will say for an intern, it probably wouldn't be quite to that level. Right.

Megan Riksen:

And for some positions, like a park ranger might not be as intense.

Grace Pushman:

Exactly, yes.

Megan Riksen:

Awesome. So yeah, it sounds like the real takeaway here is that you want to be thinking about this in advance pre-planning, um, if you wanna work in the federal government in any way, shape, or form. So that leads us to our next, next segment where we do get to interview Ben Witt, um, who has lots of advice for students planning to work in this field. Um, Ben, why don't you just get started by telling us a little bit about yourself.

Ben Witt:

Thank you. Um, I'm Ben Witt. I, uh, graduated from Grand Valley State University in 2002 with a, uh, degree in criminal justice and history.

Grace Pushman:

Well, with, with that in mind, with your majors, I'm curious to know when you first went into, when you started at Grand Valley, what were you thinking you wanted to do career-wise? Did you have any ideas?

Ben Witt:

Yeah, absolutely. When I came to school, I, I thought I was gonna be a teacher, so I started a history degree to get, teach high school history, maybe coach, um, was working on a sports minor. I don't think I quite completed it, but came close <laugh>. But, uh, yeah, so like my career path completely changed, like a lot of students do. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, when I took CJ 101, so I had a great professor for that. He's now passed, uh, Dr. James Walker. But, um, you know, just really kind of peeked my interest in law enforcement as a, as a field in general, but also never really lost the love of history. So I made it a dual.

Megan Riksen:

The real reason we have you here, I mean mm-hmm. <affirmative>, of course, we love that you work at Grand Valley now, which you are the Director of Student Conduct and Conflict Resolution, right?

Ben Witt:

Yes, I am. Okay.

Megan Riksen:

But we wanna go a little bit back in time as well, because you had a pretty cool career in the Secret Service, right?

Ben Witt:

Yes.

Megan Riksen:

Okay. I mean, I won't put words in your mouth, maybe it wasn't cool <laugh>, but, um, how did you end up doing that? Yeah, kind of, I mean, I think for our listeners would love to hear kind of that whole process for how you go from this criminal justice major at Grand Valley mm-hmm. <affirmative> to a role in the Secret Service.

Ben Witt:

Sure. Um, so when I started doing, uh, the criminal justice degree, you know, my initial major aspiration was like a lot of people are thinking, well, I'd like to try federal someday, but, um, you know, hopefully, uh, get like a local law enforcement job or maybe even state police, and then, um, ultimately aspire to get the FBI or an agency like that. And then what happened, um, was nine 11. So, um, I was a senior, uh, during the terrorist attacks at September 11th. And with that came a major shift in a lot of federal agencies, uh, workforce. So there were opportunities available that had never really been available at entry level. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, so to start out in, in the Secret Service would've been quite unusual, uh, prior to nine 11. But because, um, you know, those attacks happen and the workforce shifted, uh, a lot of Secret Service personnel went over to the private sector. At that time, a lot of, uh, private security, uh, was setting up, um, you know, looking at threat assessment, threat mitigation, and, um, a lot of Secret Service personnel also went over to the US Air Marshals Program that was a fledgling, uh, federal program at that point. So they let a lot of us with, uh, very little experience mm-hmm. <affirmative> other than a, a bachelor's degree into the agency. So I was brought on in 2002, uh, with the US Secret Service, uniform Division, and, um, stationed at the White House.

Megan Riksen:

Okay.

Grace Pushman:

That is pretty cool. I think it's really cool. I agree. Yeah. And I'm curious to know, what did you like best about your experience in the Secret Service?

Ben Witt:

Well, I, I mean, the White House is, is obviously where everything happens. Yeah. Um, so I was in the Bush administration and, um, while I was there, you know, it was obviously a very intense period in our nation's history. Not unlike I'm sure the, the, the recent period that we're going through with c o but, you know, we'd had the War on Terror, uh, being fought on one front at the time that I began in the agency in, in Afghanistan, and then ultimately expanded to the, the war in Iraq. So there was a lot of <laugh>, a lot of big global events happening, um, outside of, you know, the, the major hub that the White House is to our everyday life as Americans. So just being kind of, uh, front and center for that as a, you know, part of the security apparatus for our nation was a very, very unique experience and, and one that served me well, uh, in my career.

Megan Riksen:

How long were you with the Secret Service?

Ben Witt:

I left in 2004. Okay. So, um, yeah, I was with the agency for two years and never, uh, thought that I'd, I'd separate permanently. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, when I, like I said, when I got hired in, there were a lot of us who were, you know, entry level and they were putting classes through the academies, um, you know, basically week by week mm-hmm. <affirmative>, which was un unprecedented for them. Um, but I, I thought, you know, I kind of need to differentiate myself from the herd. So, um, I knew I had some time that if I, if I left, um, I could work on a master's degree and then possibly come back and figure out a career path within the agency, um, that was more suited to, to where I was at at the time, but ultimately ended up working in higher ed mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, at Central Michigan University where I went to do my master's and really, uh, found that I, I loved working in the college, uh, space. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I, I loved working with students, uh, faculty and staff, and, um, just haven't left since

Grace Pushman:

<laugh> kind of interesting you at full circle cuz you initially wanted to be a teacher or work in education and now you do work in education.

Ben Witt:

I never thought of it that way. That's a <laugh> That's a good point. Grace <laugh>. Thank you.

Megan Riksen:

There you go. Grace <laugh>. Um, is there anything about the experience that you would've done differently? Would you have stayed longer if you knew you weren't going to be coming back? Or is there anything, you know, throughout those two years that you would've changed?

Ben Witt:

Well, I can, I can say that the two years I was at the agency, you, you crammed probably about a decade of travel into Wow. So, you know, basically living out of a suitcase was, was, you know, we were, uh, short staffed like a lot of, uh, federal agencies, but the US Secret Service, uniform Division was especially short staffed. Um, so like the travel was very intense. We were gearing up for, um, the 2004 presidential election. So, um, you know, those cycles start basically two year, yeah. Two years out from the, the next one. So like, the travel is already quite intense. Um, you know, the, the Secret Services mission is not just to protect the president, um, and vice president, but also, you know, their families, um, other dignitaries in the US government and, and foreign officials. So, you know, it's quite a large mission and quite a small workforce. So, you know, I, it was a very tumultuous time for the agency. And, um, I think if I had to do all over again, I would've maybe stayed a little bit longer mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, I would've stayed a little bit longer, stayed the course, um, maybe, you know, looked at some, some tracks that I was on, on course for if I'd stayed on mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, you you do things in the moment. Yeah. And, uh, so, so yeah, I never got back, but, uh, had a great, uh, first experience with Secret Service.

Grace Pushman:

That's great. And I'm wondering, you know, I know you got into it in a very specific point in time, right. With 9/11, if students are interested in going into that field today, do you have any advice for them to get their foot in the door or how that would

Ben Witt:

Work? Absolutely. Um, you know, I think the first thing to do is to kinda do your homework. Um, so when I was at G vsu, you know, I had a great professor, uh, Tom Ackerman, who was at the time an FBI agent out of Lansing, and he actually wrote the book on the Guide to Careers in Federal Law Enforcement. Literally wrote the book, literally wrote the book I think, I think, did I give you a copy, Grace? Yeah. Ben.

Grace Pushman:

Yes, I have it in my office.

Ben Witt:

Yeah. So like, you know, Tom Ackerman was able to kind of, you know, help us when we took his class to kind of see that there's, there's lots of different pathways in the feds and just the, the agencies that you see on tv that's not necessarily the only ones that are out there. You know, there's lots of federal law enforcement jobs, um, and I know that, you know, a lot of 'em tend to like, like the workforce in general, um, have a lot of turnover. So it's good to, to kind of know what you're looking for mm-hmm. <affirmative> and have an employer and know what they're looking for and an employee and to really set up your, your experience as a student around that. Um, internships are great if you can get 'em, but, um, if you can't get an internship with the agency that you know, you, you seek as, as, um, your ultimate, uh, goal look for other opportunities.

Ben Witt:

Because really what it comes down to is just being able to differentiate yourself from other candidates mm-hmm. <affirmative> mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And that's what I found was, you know, I'd had some leadership roles at G VSU that I was able to, um, optimize to my advantage as a candidate, um, and, and stuff like that. So it's really, you know, building a resume, uh, building a portfolio and not discounting your experience. Um, you know, being very mindful of, of how you track that and how you're able to sell it to a potential employer, especially one in public service where, you know, they are, they, they're definitely metric driven. They, they've got, uh, their, they're descriptions and those, uh, those, those jobs have criteria and, and just finding ways to match your, your experience to them is the key.

Grace Pushman:

I love that you mentioned, you know, internships are great and we're such big proponents of students having internships, but it's not just that, you know, it's not just internships that are valuable. So I'm glad that you mentioned that because there are so many other ways to show that you have some skills and leadership ability and other, um, valuable assets that employers are looking for in addition to, um, or not just the federal government, but all employers.

Megan Riksen:

Mm-hmm. <affirmative> for sure. And I love that you also said like how you talk about it mm-hmm. <affirmative>, that you don't sell yourself short. What was the interview process like? <laugh>

Ben Witt:

Quite intense. Okay. So, I mean, I don't, I don't wanna give too, too much away about that, but, um, you know, it's, they are, uh, as intense and interview process as you would imagine an agency, like the Secret Service, they have <laugh>. So, and, but the reasons are, I mean, these are the folks that are on the front lines of our, our nation's, uh, security. So, you know, they're looking for the, the people that are the most trustworthy and, um, ready for such a, a mission. So, I mean, it's, there's, there's panel interviews, there's one-on-one m interviews, there's a full field background check. Um, you know, all secret service personalities at the time were had to hold a top secret security clearance. So, you know, you, you are in a room where potentially anything can be said, and, you know, you have to, to meet the utmost scrutiny to, to keep our nation's secrets and to, um, keep the mission. So it, it's an intense process. It, it's a, it's a long process. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> even an expedited, like it was, uh, for me, um, it's still, it takes months for them to do a, a full field investigation. So.

Megan Riksen:

Yeah. Wow. And you had mentioned earlier kind of the way we see careers portrayed on TV. Um, so we, we'd love the scoop. Like what are they getting wrong when they're portraying the Secret Service on tv?

Ben Witt:

You know, it's funny, the Secret Service is probably one where they don't get a lot wrong. Okay. Um, and, and the reason I'll say that, um, when I, uh, was in the agency, I had the opportunity to actually go to the film office at Secret Service Headquarters, and there is an attache in the agency who actually works with production studios, works with Hollywood Studios to make no way Yeah. To make sure that they get it right, because that's cool. It's a recruitment tool. Yeah. Um, and you know, there was a great saying in the Secret Service, there's no secrets in the Secret Service, uh, when it comes to, you know, what the agency's mission is and, and what it's all about. So like, they want, they want those details to be portrayed accurately. They want the uniforms to look great, they want the cars to look right.

Ben Witt:

That kind of stuff. Sure. Yeah. So, you know, it, it is really, um, kind of interesting that they, I'm sure the FBI or somebody has that too, but, um, you know, with the Secret Service, they, they tend to get a lot more Right. Than they get wrong. I mean, I mean, I think that one thing that they, they all always get wrong is that it's, you know, we, we would say it's, you know, 5% sheer terror, 95% boredom like a lot of, of, uh, you know, response driven fields. Um, you know, they, they tend to skip right to the action. Right. Uh, when you watch Yes. You know, that's

Grace Pushman:

True. Yeah.

Ben Witt:

In the line of fire 24 or whatever. So

Grace Pushman:

I think that's true of almost every profession you see on TV. Like they're, they're not showing you the paperwork involved.

Megan Riksen:

No. Standing there. Yeah. Uhhuh,

Grace Pushman:

I like how you mentioned, I didn't even think about the aspect of it being a recruitment tool mm-hmm. <affirmative>, but I do know as career advisors, we are often hearing students say, I wanna do this job because I saw it on TV. Right. Or because I love this show that portrays this role, whether it's, you know, nursing or, um, FBI or whatever the case mm-hmm. <affirmative> crime scene investigator. So I That's so cool. They have, you know, a specific you said office Yeah. That does that. Yeah. Yep.

Megan Riksen:

That's neat. Yeah,

Ben Witt:

It was interesting to, to see the apparatus and, and what goes into the age. It's, it's a lean agency, um, compared to other federal law enforcement agencies, it's one of the smaller, at least it was at the time. So, um, but they, they're very mindful of how they allocate resources and how they deploy them. And there, there was a reason for everything. We didn't always see it at the time, but they're like, like, uh, many federal, uh, agencies, you know, there's a lot of bureaucracy, but, um, you know, there's a reason for everything that they do, and it, and they have a zero fail mission, so they're pretty great at what they do.

Megan Riksen:

Yeah. That's incredible.

Grace Pushman:

Yeah. I loved hearing about like, this is just a part of a career that we don't normally know people who have done it. So it's just so neat to be able to work with someone and to have you take the time to chat with us about your experience. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> mm-hmm. <affirmative>. It's very valuable.

Megan Riksen:

Yeah. We really appreciate it. And you work at Grand Valley, so if a student was interested in kind of doing an informational interview with you, chatting with you about it, are you open to chatting with students?

Ben Witt:

Oh, yeah. Always happy to talk to Lakers or anyone who's interested in a career in federal law enforcement about my experience for what it's worth. And then to kind of, you know, just help 'em get in. I think it's more mindset than anything. Yeah. I think it's really, if you're, if you're looking at federal law enforcement, especially, you know, it's a mindset and it's understanding that it's, it's not a job, it's a lifestyle. And that's really the big thing that I think, um, you know, it, it, you can't emphasize that enough, is that what you're signing up for is really, it's a 24/7 mm-hmm. <affirmative> lifestyle that, that you're, you're going into. Yeah.

Megan Riksen:

Awesome. Well, I think that answered all our questions. This was so interesting. Yeah. Um, so thank you so much to everybody for listening, and we hope you tune in to a future episode soon.