Megan Riksen:

Hello and welcome to the Work Like Laker podcast. I'm Megan Riksen, and today I'm joined by Grace Pushman. And on today's episode, we are tackling a fun topic, how to negotiate a job offer. So Grace, have you ever negotiated a job offer before?

Grace Joaquin:

Mostly, no. So as a teacher, you, that's not really as much of a thing because there's like steps and stuff and it's very laid out already how much you'll probably make. But I have once and I will say it was not successful. I did not, I did not increase

Megan Riksen:

Failed attempt.

Grace Joaquin:

Yeah. I did not increase my salary at all. But I think, you know, I believe it's because really they were giving me the best offer they could. Sure. And sometimes that happens soon.

Megan Riksen:

It felt fair.

Grace Joaquin:

Yeah.

Megan Riksen:

Regardless.

Grace Joaquin:

Yeah, exactly. So I'm glad I tried cuz it was a hard thing. But how about, how about you Megan? Have you already

Megan Riksen:

Done that? Yeah, I haven't either. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> I haven't been successful or unsuccessful. I've never tried, which is actually something that, I mean, it's not like a regret or anything, but I kind of wish I had the experience of giving it a shot and like yeah. Doing some research and bringing that to the table. But yeah, same thing. I've worked at nonprofits, you know, worked in higher education, so it's a little trickier.

Grace Joaquin:

Yeah, exactly.

Megan Riksen:

Yeah. Yep. Good deal. So, you know, negotiation can often feel uncomfortable or maybe like this huge task you have in front of you. So our goal today is to help to clear up some of the mystery around this process so that all of you listening will just, you know, have a lot more confidence when you go into any sort of a negotiation process. And we'll talk through what some of that might look like. It's important to understand the job offer and then potentially negotiate for salary, but also for benefits and lots of other things that align with the market and what you're bringing to the table. So, Grace, to kick us off, I think you have a few stats for us.

Grace Joaquin:

I do. So according to some of our resources, 46% of men will negotiate while 34% of women, it's

Megan Riksen:

A big gap.

Grace Joaquin:

It's a big gap. And, and again, Megan and I are kind of examples, but you do have to keep in mind where are people working, right? And if it makes sense to negotiate, appreciate. So yeah. But those are just some stats for you to start out. And also a survey of 2,800 people or 2,800 hiring managers, 70% of them expect candidates will want to negotiate. So there's more of them expecting that we roll. Yes. And we're not, so that's just gonna keep in mind is that they expect you to.

Megan Riksen:

It's like double the number of women. Yeah.

Grace Joaquin:

Exact. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. More than double. Yeah. 90% of employers will not retract an offer because of negotiations. And honestly, that 10% did still surprise me a little bit that there was 10% who would retract an offer. But keep in mind that according to our source, which is salary.com, that when they do retract an offer, it's often because of the approach the candidate took to negotiate.

Megan Riksen:

Not the negotiation itself.

Grace Joaquin:

Exactly. Yeah. So I think you can always try it, but you just wanna be very respectful and we'll talk about later, like how you can negotiate in a way that will seem respectful to the employer. Right. and then our final stat is that 38% of graduates will negotiate overall. So gender aside, 38%.

Megan Riksen:

Yeah. Overall. Good.

Grace Joaquin:

Megan, do you have any suggestions for students who want to negotiate? Like how would you even start that conversation?

Megan Riksen:

Yeah, so here's an example of what it might look like after you've received either a verbal offer or an offer letter. Both can happen and both can be legitimate. You'll wanna let them know, you know, right off, right off the bat that you of course appreciate the opportunity, but that you really would like some time to review and consider it. And a part, you know, kind of what Grace was just mentioning before, you're having a real conversation with someone. So you don't just have to be a robot saying Thank you for the offer, I need some time. You can be like, that's really great, I'm excited to review this. Would it be okay if I take three days to do that? And then, you know, have a conversation around that. If they're like, Ooh, that's too long. Say, well, could I have two or, you know, start at a week.

Megan Riksen:

You know, even that, like the time piece is a little teeny tiny negotiation right there. I would say typically no longer than a week though. Yeah. Wouldn't you? I would say that you don't wanna expect too, too much. And you know, just something to be aware of in that process is that you likely won't have engaged in a salary discussion before you actually receive this offer. Because you, we don't want you to be the one to bring it up. Exactly. Yeah. But if for example, you are working with a recruiter at a company and they are asking some of that, I think it is okay to answer and we'll, we'll go through some strategies for what you, how you might say that.

Grace Joaquin:

Yeah. So you, you definitely should do some research to get the number that you want to say to someone if they ask you about that. Honestly, whenever you can, you wanna give, have them give a number first. So like if anything, if they say, what do you expect? You might say, well, what's the typical range that you would offer? And have them throw out a number first. Yep. But sometimes they kind of corner you and it feels like you have to give a number first. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, I've, I've heard a lot of students and alumni say that. Yeah. And if that's the case, you just really wanna do your research beforehand. Yes. If you can. Yes. Or if they throw out a number first and you want to negotiate up, you still need to do that research to have a reason to negotiate, so.

Megan Riksen:

Right. Exactly. And yeah, something I I didn't mention is, you know, you think about salary as kind of that first piece of an offer but when you're in that like one to three, three days or week long review you definitely wanna look at that entire compensation package. So this will be things like, do you get vacation time, paid time off? What does health insurance look like? Are there any, you know, continuing education elements that where they might pay for you to go back to school if that's something you wanted to do. Bonuses, raises, those are all things that might be written out in a job offer. And if they aren't, it's okay to ask for them. Right?

Grace Joaquin:

Yes. And I would say too, like asking anything about the compensation package is totally fine. Like, I think sometimes you feel like you're being maybe a burden to ask like, what's the retirement like, don't mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, like you should ask those questions beforehand

Megan Riksen:

Totally. Because you might find that they have just really awesome benefits Yes. That more than make up for maybe a smaller salary and a different offer Yeah. When you put together that total compensation. So yeah. Great. Definitely doing a little bit of research is going, is going to go a long way in this

Grace Joaquin:

Process. Yeah. And some places you might do that research would be like PayScale, Glassdoor, you might do some informational interviews with people who have similar roles come to the career center. There's a lot of things you can do to look into it.

Megan Riksen:

Yeah. Multiple sources is kind of the name of the game there. Right. One website might say one thing, another might say another. So maybe somewhere in between. Exactly. Talking to a real person always goes a long

Grace Joaquin:

Way. And I think this research is what's going to help you, as we talked about earlier with rescinding an offer. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> an employer resin an offer. I think you doing your research is going to help prevent that because if they see that you have like a legitimate reason for trying to negotiate, that's gonna feel like you're respecting their time and Right. And their offer more.

Megan Riksen:

Once you have done some homework on salary ranges and you want to counter offer, you can start by contacting HR or the recruiter, basically the person you likely have been working with from the beginning stages of the interview process. You wanna thank them again for the offer and then follow with is there room to negotiate or can we discuss salary? And then if they say yes, make sure you have that number in mind.

Grace Joaquin:

One thing you last thing you wanna consider too is if you are going to try to negotiate, you want to think about do you meet and exceed their requirements? Because if you're like just meeting that bare minimum requirement of what they're asking for and you have nothing additional that you're bringing to the table, you might not have a lot of wiggle room to request more. So, you know, be thinking about your skillsets, experiences knowledge base and if it warrants that higher pay because again, that I think is an important factor in mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, how well that negotiation is going

Megan Riksen:

To go. Absolutely. Yeah. Just being kind of honest with yourself, <laugh> as you're thinking through that, what am I matching? Do I deserve more for this position or is this pretty fair? Yeah, yeah. Good deal. So, you know a key thing to remember if you were working with a recruiter is that they are the liaison to the hiring manager, the person that will likely be your boss or supervisor. So use that person in a good way, right? Like they want to see you get hired. They, it is their job to recruit people and find people for these roles. So you can have a little bit more of those candid conversations with those recruiters than you might if you were in like, say a second round interview with your potential, you know, future supervisors. So to talk more about this topic and give us their perspective as a very special guest, Grace's husband, Victor Joaquin. Right. So we are joined by Victor. Hi Victor.

Victor Joaquin:

Hello.

Megan Riksen:

Can you just start with a brief introduction of yourself?

Victor Joaquin:

Yeah, absolutely. So my name is Victor Joaquin and I am the talent program manager for the Wright Place. I started there about six weeks ago. I have an experience about five, six years experience in recruiting mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, and I'm currently helping companies consult with their talent needs, fill the gaps, but also educate us to how to diversify their talent as well.

Megan Riksen:

Nice. This is brand new.

Victor Joaquin:

Brand new for me. Yeah. Was an opportunity I wasn't looking for. It kind of came to me. I wasn't very familiar with economic development whatsoever. And the more I learned about it you know, the more interested I I got and just knowing the impact I could make in this position sounds

Megan Riksen:

Amazing. Yeah.

Grace Joaquin:

And when you say that it came to you, what do you mean by that? Like how did you get this opportunity? How did that all happen?

Megan Riksen:

It's like stork delivering her job. It was offer at your door,

Victor Joaquin:

Right? I did not, it did not require magical beans, <laugh>, but it did require a LinkedIn account. Okay. Linkedin was huge,

Megan Riksen:

Magical.

Victor Joaquin:

That is the magical beans of LinkedIn. No, they, you know, I created a LinkedIn account and it wasn't probably two, three weeks until I started having a lot of recruiters reach out to me for different companies. I had a recruiting job at the time, and so I was very familiar with the tactics and I understand that they do have to go out and reach out. I was very impressed, however, as to how fast it they were to reach out to me after just recently opening up or creating my LinkedIn page account which was very cool. And so after a few offers, or at least a few offers for interviews it was the right place that I finally said yes to.

Megan Riksen:

Awesome.

Grace Joaquin:

The right place apparently

Megan Riksen:

<Laugh>. Yeah. Boy, that really just works out, doesn't it?

Victor Joaquin:

Pun intended.

Megan Riksen:

That's the right place. Yeah. Yes. Pun intended. Absolutely.

Grace Joaquin:

And with when they reached out to you, you know, so it wasn't the right place that reached out, it was a recruiter right. Who was hired by the right

Victor Joaquin:

Place. Correct. Okay. Yes. They have a recruiting agency, kind of that does their head hunting, so

Megan Riksen:

To speak. Okay. Yeah. And was your first interview with them? Yes.

Victor Joaquin:

Okay. Over the phone. Yep. Was an in-person. It was, was over the phone. Yep. And after that, that's when she started arranging an in-person interview with the senior Vice President of Talent and Diversity, who's my direct supervisor. After that, it was met with an additional round of interviews with Hello West Michigan who is a partner of the right place. And then a, it was the final interview with the COO and CEO. So it was a lot of stages of Yeah. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> interviewing. But I felt that with E Round I started wanting more of, you know, the position more and more. Yeah.

Grace Joaquin:

That's what you want.

Victor Joaquin:

Exactly.

Grace Joaquin:

Stronger and stronger

Victor Joaquin:

About it. Absolutely. It was, it was a great experience. I definitely learned a lot while interviewing. It was certainly something that I never really looked at in interviews as an interviewee as a person going in for an interview, how much fun it could be or how much, you know, conversations could be had during an interview. Yeah. So it was very cool. It was very, a very organic experience, and that's why I was, I was a very easy yes mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. But I made sure not to show them

Grace Joaquin:

<Laugh>. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That's a great segue. Yes. <laugh> our topic at hand. Yeah. so when you were talking to the recruiter how did the conversations go about? Like, did she ask you what you were looking for, what your needs were? How did, how did that start? How did that conversation go?

Victor Joaquin:

Right, yes. So they definitely afterward wanted to ask. They usually, it is usually at the end of the interview mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, they'll ask you, you know, what it is that you're looking for especially compensation. Yeah. Yeah. And I always advocate that it is important to do your research, know your market mm-hmm. <Affirmative> and know your worth. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, and I did not have all of that during that first interview. Yeah. So, and because again, the right place economic development was not something that was familiar to me. It was foreign. They reached out to me. So I was kind of like blindsided by this opportunity. However, after hearing more and being educated during that first initial interview and really liking what I heard, I did my research. And so when it came to the later rounds of the interview process, I made sure to, you know, arm myself, so to speak mm-hmm. <Affirmative> with all the facts especially when it comes to compensation. Yep,

Grace Joaquin:

Yep. How did you do that research? So you, so you started, you said you weren't really sure what to expect because this opportunity just kind of presented itself to you as far as compensation. So she, they asked you what you're looking for, you weren't really sure, so maybe just gave a number and then later on you did some research and what, what did that look like?

Victor Joaquin:

Yeah, so initially when it came to compensation, you know, I was basing it off of what I was currently making mm-hmm. <Affirmative> at, you know, the job that I had at the time. And I think that would be, that was mistake number one for me because I was definitely low balling myself. Yeah. I then did the research and realized I could be making a lot more. And so that, you know, that number that I, I initially gave was probably, I would say 25 to 40% lower than what the final offer was. Wow. that's a lot. It, it's quite a bit. Yeah. It's quite a bit. It's a lot of extra lunches and <laugh> nights at the movie theaters. Yeah.

Victor Joaquin:

But thankfully I did do the research and I think the best way to do research is first of all, you know, see what other jobs, if, if, if there are ways available to you where you can see salaries of people of the same profession in your area. I know salary.com, I think is the website or just Google mm-hmm. <Affirmative> what the career is. And then the area like Grand Rapids, Michigan, and typically you'll find good links that will provide you that info to give you somewhat of a range. And what also helps is to see if you can, you know, utilize your created network. Do you know someone that is in that organization that can really, really give you a a huge advantage in terms of, you know, what they're looking for, but also what they're able to pay and what they're usually willing to pay. Because recruiters out there, they may not want to admit this and they won't admit this. There are times unfortunately where recruiters there is incentive to try and low ball mm-hmm. <Affirmative> people, thankfully my type of recruiting was not that. It was very entry level, so negotiation wasn't really part of that. But when it comes to the young professionals and they're, you know, wanting to get into the workforce, I mean, those jobs, their ranges, salary ranges can vary greatly.

Megan Riksen:

Yeah. So be equipped. Right. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And

Grace Joaquin:

I think your recruiter, so being your wife, I have the inside scoop on this, but I think your recruiter, she really had your back in a lot of ways. But still she's not always going to be like encouraging someone to negotiate. Right. Like, that's not her job. Right. Right. Her, her job is to really do what's best for both parties, including the employer mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. So even though I think she had your back in a lot of ways, like it was still totally on you to to advocate for yourself.

Victor Joaquin:

Right. Absolutely. And that's certainly something that I try to stress to everyone is self-advocacy. You are there for a job and you have to make sure that the job you accept if you were to accept it, is the job for you. There are at this moment, so many companies looking for so many people and they can't find them. That's right. You know, the power has greatly shifted to the interviewee versus the interviewer mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. And so self-advocacy has never been more important mm-hmm. <Affirmative> today than it has ever, I don't think.

Megan Riksen:

Right. And was when you were kind of going, not, not that you went back on what you said, but when you came equipped with that new information, when you had done your research, was that just a conversation? Was that over the phone? What did that

Victor Joaquin:

Look like? Yeah, so that was a conversation over the phone. And I remember they asked me Hey, so you said, you know, in our first interview that this was the amount that you wanted. Yep. And I go, well, actually <laugh>, you know, having learned a lot, you've taught me so much <laugh> so much thank you for all this information. But I've, after doing a little bit of research and talking with some professionals in this line of work, I think this would be a more fitting range. Yep. I was fortunate enough that they came higher than my offer, so there wasn't really much negotiation on my part. It was more of just making sure that the compensation package you know, afforded me the things that mean the most mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. So if, you know, if they didn't offer a 401k, if they didn't offer any type of health insurance or their health insurance was too expensive, you know, maybe a salary, a lower salary would be better if it came with a much better compensation. So looking at the entire benefit package that came along mm-hmm. <Affirmative> with the salary is also very important.

Megan Riksen:

Yeah. That's huge. Yeah. Most things add up quickly. Yes.

Grace Joaquin:

And I think especially for like recent, like new alumni who are entering the, the workforce don't always think about those things. So

Megan Riksen:

I think, you know, people. You think of that just one number, the salary. Yes. <Laugh> mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. Yeah. Yeah. Good. All right. Well that is super helpful. Thank you so much for sharing your story.

Victor Joaquin:

You're very welcome. Thank you for having me.

Megan Riksen:

So while it's wonderful to hear about someone who was able to negotiate for a higher job offer let's hear from a recent alum about a different experience. All right. Joining us now is Maddie Sutton. Hi, Maddie. Hello.

Maddie Sutton:

Hi guys, how are you?

Megan Riksen:

Good, how are you? Good. Thanks so much for coming in. We're excited to talk to you on this job offer episode. Cause we know you've had a bit of an experience with how that went and, and we just thought it, you know, we, we kind of have a preview, we know the outcome a little bit <laugh>, but we're excited to talk to you more about that. But why don't you just begin by telling us about the position that you applied for and ultimately got and kind of how that process worked.

Maddie Sutton:

Yeah, so basically in November so I, I re I got reached out to by a recruiter on Handshake how they send the emails. Yeah, yeah. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, so I got that. And it was for Deloitte Consulting. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Nice. And it was a application and program analyst position. Okay. Honestly at that point it was November. I had been applying to full-time jobs since August. Wow. basically three to five per week that I would just try to do as much as as I could. Wow. Good for you. <Laugh>. And I think too, like getting interview experience for me was huge. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> mm-hmm. <Affirmative> prior to, because mm-hmm. <Affirmative> the interview process was lengthy, but mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. Yeah. So just kind of like getting, getting a lot of experience. And then obviously I applied and then I eventually got it. And yeah. So then basically what happened is the recruiter told me, you know, we'll, we'll send the offer letter shortly, and that's what had the details of your salary, your benefits start time, that kind of stuff. But yeah, so really new to the whole process, obviously. Yeah. And it's something that we don't really talk about as college kids. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Right. So it's

Megan Riksen:

Kind of a thing that you're always dreaming will happen, and then when it actually does, you're like, no, what do I do?

Maddie Sutton:

Exactly. And for me too, like I usually go to my parents for a lot of that Yeah. Kind of stuff. And, you know, they're both in education. Sure. they, they're like, what is this, this magical offer?

Grace Joaquin:

<Laugh>,

Maddie Sutton:

They're like, in, they're like 30 years out of from like, get getting a new job. Like they've been in the same position basically. So like yeah. It was just kind of a really like weird process. But Yeah. You know, I work at the career center, so having that in my back pocket was obviously huge too <laugh>. Right. Cause I had advisors and other connections that were giving me, you know, the advice that I needed to hear too. So.

Megan Riksen:

Great. Yeah. So talk us through that a little bit. Who were some of the people that you felt were the most valuable to speak with

Maddie Sutton:

To work with this? So, I th the first person I talked to was Stephanie, who is a career advisor at Grin Valley and she directed me then to Troy mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, who's our director of the career center. And I've heard great things about how he's great at negotiating. So I guess for me, I just didn't know what I deserved. Sure. in the position I didn't, I didn't, I had a lot of questions of, you know, if I were to negotiate how is this a fair salary is it a fair starting bonus or compensation mm-hmm. <Affirmative> cuz the position was in Denver, Colorado, so Okay. That whole relocation process I didn't know if that was included or like what that process was like. So really just kind of you know, asking Troy those questions mm-hmm. <Affirmative> and his experiences as well.

Grace Joaquin:

And so you did this in the short period of time, like after you got the offer letter, but before you officially accepted? Or how did that timeline work when you talk to Troy?

Maddie Sutton:

Yeah, so basically what happens is when they send you the package, they'll give you, you know, two weeks. Mine was four weeks actually, which really, it's usually pretty long. That's very

Megan Riksen:

Long.

Maddie Sutton:

Very long. Yeah. but usually they, they try to make it as quick as possible cause they don't want you to have more options, I guess mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. but, but yeah, so they gave me a month and I used about three weeks of that time just because I really wanted to sit on the decision. It was something that when I got the call I was more than likely gonna take. But it was just something that I, I really wanted to sit on it and just kind of you know, ask, ask around and see what other people were saying. And I did have someone from Grand Valley who works at Deloitte and he was in the Denver office, so kind of, you know, asking him the questions that I really want to hear, like, Hey, how many hours are you actually working? Yes. <affirmative> or you know, he even talked salary with me, which was very helpful too to kind of see like his position and where he stood comparison to where I stood. So just those kind of things where you really have to use your network and kind of, you know, ask the hard questions Yeah. That a lot of people don't really wanna talk about, so. Yeah. Right.

Megan Riksen:

But sounds like you really did all the right things, <laugh> you talked to multiple people, you weren't just relying on, you know, your friends here at Grand Valley or something to tell you, you talked to, you know, reputable sources. I think that was awesome to try to find somebody mm-hmm. <Affirmative> an alum Yes. At Deloitte in the u very office where you would be working. And I think you bring up such a good point that yeah, salary is a component of it, but you wanted to know Yeah. What's my actual working life gonna be like? And even though that's not technically the offer, that's part of the decision. Of course.

Maddie Sutton:

Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. And, and those, and that whole process, like it didn't feel like I was doing the right thing. It felt like it didn't, my mind was going a million like miles a minute. I was like, is this right? Yeah. Am I, am I like, you know, because you're just constantly questioning yourself when you're going through that right. Process. So that's why I was so over the top about talking to as many people as I could in getting almost too many opinions on it. <Laugh>. Yeah. So yeah, but

Grace Joaquin:

That's a good point. You wanna like get some opinions, but you also have to trust your own gut and, you know, balance that out.

Megan Riksen:

So did you use any other tools for research websites, things like that, to look up

Maddie Sutton:

Data? Yeah, so Glassdoor mm-hmm. <Affirmative> was a really good resource for me. They have a lot of reviews too. Yes. On specific positions, which I found really helpful. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> especially even in the interview process. Oh, good. And then yeah, they also have a feature where you can see compensation mm-hmm. <Affirmative> so kind of comparing that, which with Covid it's been kind of hard to tell because a lot of different positions they, they kind of waiver with like the remote positions and stuff like that mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. So I found that that could be a little bit difficult, difficult and kind of like skew the results of the compensation, but yeah. But

Megan Riksen:

Yeah, definitely any site you yeah. You kind of have to evaluate who's given that information. Yeah. What is their role, what are we in a pandemic, those

Grace Joaquin:

Sort of things. Also, remembering that a lot of times that information doesn't take into account years of experience. I think in Glassdoor there's like something you can select how many years of experience you have, but if you're just looking at the number without doing that, and your entry level, what you got offered might be quite different than what's on there potentially, but

Maddie Sutton:

Right. Yeah. And a big thing for me too is like, so the position focuses, I'm a business management and marketing degree. It focuses on sap which is not at all related to my major necessarily. So for me, when I was going through the negotiation with process with Troy I was telling him, him, you know, like, yes, I have the, I have qualifications but compared to other candidates who may have SAP certification already mm-hmm. <Affirmative> mm-hmm. <Affirmative> or different, different things that may, may make them more qualified, like, do I even have leverage in a negotiation? Mm. So kind of those hard questions that you kind of like really look at your qualifications and what you have to offer and say you know, do I have that leverage? Right.

Megan Riksen:

Right. So that's good. That leads me to kind of my final question is what was the outcome? Did you decide to negotiate what happened?

Maddie Sutton:

Yeah. So basically with the, the package that I received I did not negotiate. Yeah. But I did ask questions. So basically what happened is I called up my recruiter and I said, you know, hey, like I really like the, what you're offering. I think it's great, and I, I'm more than excited to join the firm regardless of what you're gonna offer me next. So kind of laying that, that base layer of, you know, I want this position. Yep. And then I said, but is there any relocation fees or like maybe a stipend that I can receive for relocating from Michigan to Denver mm-hmm. <Affirmative> or is there any sort of you know, room in that, that salary. And what she told me is basically you know, I did choose to go to Denver <laugh>. Right.

Maddie Sutton:

So like the relocation fee wasn't really a necessary. Sure. And as for the salary, there was room, but I still felt like I was really comfortable at where I was at mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. so I did not go further mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, but if I were to, again, Troy really prepped me on how to handle those conversations, so Right. Yeah. But I think, I think through that process, it was very you know, important for me to go through because I think that it took a lot of self-reflection to kind of see, okay, you know, what do I wanna do here? And then kind of going through that process of talking to superiors mm-hmm. <Affirmative> and kind of showing, you know, my 20 year old self, like, hey, I, I am capable of having a conversation with an adult. And going through that, those tough conversations, so Right.

Megan Riksen:

Yeah. So yeah. Even though you didn't end up actually negotiating, you did everything up until that point, and that's a skillset you're gonna have with you the next job offer you

Maddie Sutton:

Receive. Right.

Grace Joaquin:

And probably at that point you will have leverage to negotiate. Right. You made a really solid decision. You analyzed, you know, what the description was asking for what you're bringing to the table, what the offer was. It sounds like it was a great offer and you thought, you know, at this point, this is perfect for me. This is a good offer, but the next step, now you know what to do when you are gonna have years of experience to leverage.

Maddie Sutton:

Right. Absolutely. And, and two is salary. Like a lot of people don't wanna talk about it. So I think that like, it makes it such a hard conversation to have mm-hmm. <Affirmative> and like for students, a big thing is like with TikTok there's a lot of different, like, this is how you negotiate, this is how you you know, kind of navigate that. So having those like outside assistance kind of helps too as to how you wanna handle the situation and kind of go from there. But yeah.

Megan Riksen:

That's great. Yeah. Awesome. Well, we really appreciate you sharing your story with us. Yeah, absolutely. And so happy for you that it all worked out so well and you were with us in the center for how

Maddie Sutton:

Long? So this was actually, so I <laugh>, it's actually kind of funny, but when I was interviewing for Deloitte, it was my first interview and that's when I started the first day I started at, so it's been like a whole year that I worked here book. Oh wow. Yeah, in September I started. So, and I've loved it. So Definit, definitely check out the Career

Megan Riksen:

Center. <Laugh>. We'll not be editing that out. <Laugh> that stays. Thanks Mandy. <Laugh>. All right. Thanks for coming, Maddy. Yeah, absolutely.

Maddie Sutton:

Thank you so much. Thanks for having me guys.

Grace Joaquin:

As you can see, you never know what to expect when you get a job offer, but a key takeaway is to always take a few days to think it over before saying yes. Do your research and decide on if and how you do want to negotiate.

Megan Riksen:

Absolutely. I think that's totally right, grace. So thanks again to our guests, Victor and Maddie, and we hope you all tune in to a future episode soon.