Megan Riksen:

Hello and welcome to the Work Like a Laker podcast. I'm Megan Riksen and today I'm joined by Grace Pushman. Hi Grace.

Grace Pushman:

Hi Megan.

Megan Riksen:

So working in the Career Center as career advisors, we often hear students say, I don't want a job where I just have to sit at a desk all day. I hear that all the time, all the time. Mm-hmm <affirmative> it's like maybe the number one work value that students are expressing.

Grace Pushman:

Yes, too. <laugh>.

Megan Riksen:

Because I think so many of us have this fear of the like cubicle farm. Yes. That like bland, gray desert of a work environment where you're stuck in a cube day, looking at a computer all day.

Grace Pushman:

Like the movie Office Space. Right.

Megan Riksen:

Or even, I mean, The Office, I guess it is little bit better, but still they sit at their desk. Yes. A lot. Yep. Right. Um, so of course those spaces do exist. Um, but you know, it doesn't always have to be your reality. And what we wanna talk about today is there are plenty of office jobs where sure. You have a desk that you come back to all the time, but it might not be as stuck in your seat as you're imagining. Yes. So we, we wanna shed some light on office jobs and what they really can look like. So we're gonna do that by kind of talking about some of the common refrains we hear from students when it comes to this type of work. So Grace, do you wanna kick us off with the first one?

Grace Pushman:

Yeah. So we'll be myth busting today. Some of the, the common myths that we hear, one is if I work at an office, I'll be sitting in a cubicle or office all day long. Now, like Megan said, there are probably a few, a small percentage of jobs that you would be at your desk for the majority of the day. But I think in our experience, that is not typical of most office jobs, right. Because often you are, your day today is going to look very different. So for example, technically Megan and I have office jobs. Yes. We work in an office. Yes. Um, and honestly, I think I was one of those people that never thought that would be me either. Mm-hmm <affirmative> um, at one point. So, but what I will say is that my job does not feel boring. And even though I am in my office, probably for the majority of the week, there are a lot of times that I am in a meeting, I am giving a presentation.

Grace Pushman:

I might even leave Grand Valley campus to go to a conference or to go visit an employer. So there is quite a lot of variety within that. And I think you'll also, so I think a lot of jobs are like that where you're not just at, at your desk all day, you're, you're moving around, you're doing a lot of different things. Um, and then also something to think about is that workspaces typically aren't dull anymore. Mm-hmm so you might fantasize about working at a space like Google, where there are ping pong tables and slushy machines. Um, but the good news is a lot of companies are kind of adapting that vibe, right? Moving toward that. Exactly. We have, um, Coyote Logistics here in Michigan. They have flags and pendants hanging from their wall music playing, they have a snack bar, Quicken loans has a basketball court treadmill desks, and you can bring your own dog to work.

Grace Pushman:

Um, companies like Hayworth and Herman Miller are utilizing interior designed to promote creativity and collaboration. I know I did a tour of Steelcase offices and they're just beautiful. It's just beautiful. And so many ways they've, they've set it up so that there's just a variety of ways that workers can do their work. Sure. Like you don't just have to be in one space. You can move around. Yes. You can sit on a couch, you can sit on a rocking chair. Like you could sit in so many different areas to get your work done. That makes I think, feel fun and fresh.

Megan Riksen:

It gives you some variety. So you, you aren't just always you're might be looking at your computer a lot. Yes. But the environment around you maybe can change enough that it, it kind of spices things up a little bit.

Grace Pushman:

Exactly. And I think it's hard to find a job where you're not looking at a computer these days.

Megan Riksen:

Like email there's just yeah. Stuff that every job is gonna have. Right. Exactly.

Grace Pushman:

And, and then finally with that too, just thinking about, you know, not necessarily like where you're sitting can change. Mm-hmm <affirmative> the world of work is changing especially within the last year. So a lot of companies are adopting remote work. Mm-hmm <affirmative> and like, even though a lot of places I think are slowly going back to working in person, you, I think there has been a big shift. I know, for example, at Grand Valley, I think a lot of people are now, be working at campus. And then also occasionally at home mm-hmm <affirmative> and I, lot of companies are doing that. So you might have the freedom to call your bedroom, your office if you want, or your, you know, your own kitchen table or however it works. And so I think you'll find that in a lot of companies, there's more flexibility there as well.

Megan Riksen:

Right. And that also might be something that, you know, because of the pandemic companies are more open to. So when you're starting a new position asking there flexible work arrangements available that I can do a couple of days yeah. From home and the rest of the time in the office, it might be as simple as asking, is this available to me?

Grace Pushman:

That's actually something that we, we talk about negotiating and how to negotiate. That's actually something that you, that's a great maybe thing to put in there as a way to negotiate your position. If you want to work remote.

Megan Riksen:

Entry level might be hard to ask for more pay, but you could certainly ask for some flexibility in the way you work. Yeah, exactly. And that would break up the week. Right?

Grace Pushman:

Totally. Well, I guess I should say an example from my own personal life is that, um, I, you know, we have offices both in Allendale and in, in the downtown campus. So plug for our offices, you can visit us at both campuses. Um, but because of that, a lot of us move back and forth between the campuses. And I love that. So typically I will be in Allendale a couple days a week and at downtown a few days, and I love that variety. It's it's great. And I think most of the people we work with would say the same.

Megan Riksen:

Absolutely. Yeah. Yes. Variety is helpful. However, you can get it. <laugh> all right. So the next refrain we hear is that students want to do something hands on. So, you know, when you're thinking about a, a job role that's hands on, you might jump to kind of the practical technical careers, something in healthcare or engineering, where you're working directly with patients where you are designing machinery that's used in manufacturing. So of course those kind of roles. Yes. Those are very hands on. You're physical therapist. You are, you are literally literally hands on on, right. Um, so that's you, you know, what might first come to mind, but so much of our world utilizes technology in different aspects of their job, that it actually is likely that even in those hands on roles, there still is a percentage, sometimes even a pretty large percentage of the time that needs to be spent on things like paperwork or just work that needs to happen at a desk.

Megan Riksen:

Yeah. Think about a doctor, right? Yes. That's a very hands on role, but you know, maybe doing a informational interview with someone in healthcare, you might find that I don't know, 40% of their time, they need to be taking notes and doing paperwork and getting all of those things in order. So, you know, it's a little deceptive sometimes. And then on the flip side, you know, I'll use the example of working in the field of accounting. You might think of accounting as a field that, well, you're gonna be stuck at a desk, boring, boring, boring, looking at numbers all day when in reality, many of those roles are maybe it's client serving. So you're going out to a client often. Um, those typically are pretty team based roles. So you might be in a conference room with your colleagues rather than just always sitting in the same space.

Megan Riksen:

So I think it's kind of good to look at at both sides of the coin when we're talking about hands on positions. So if you want to work hands on, you wanna consider, you know, what does that actually mean? Is your value to work outside? Is it to be on your feet all day long? Mm-hmm <affirmative> do you want to, do you want physicality to be a part of your job, right? Or are you, you know, kind of just thinking I, yeah, I don't wanna be staring at a computer screen all day, which I think we hopefully are, are busting that a little bit, that that's not always something you have to do, but, um, you know, always a good idea to talk with your career advisor about some of those options and, and what that, what that might look like.

Grace Pushman:

Right. And I think this next myth is very to what Megan was just talking about, which is that you, if you're in an office job, you're doing the same thing every day. So Megan even just gave the example of accounting, I'll give a similar example example because I was, um, an intern for an actuarial company. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, it was a consulting firm, which is similar to accounting. If, if you don't know what actuarial science is. Um, but it is very much sitting in front of a computer working on Excel spreadsheets typically. And from my experience, however, even though that was probably the bulk of my time there, and I will say for me, it was too much computer time. Mm-hmm <affirmative> for me, everyone's going to be different. But even with that, there were, we went to a baseball game as a group. We would go out to lunch all the time.

Grace Pushman:

Mm-hmm <affirmative> with the people we worked with, we would go to other companies as, you know, consultants and meet with other professionals in other areas, we had meetings, we had trainings, it was a very dynamic experience. Um, but I think there is that balance, right. Everyone has to decide, okay, well, how much of my time can be in front of a computer or can be at my desk? Yes. Because you know, maybe, maybe 30% of your time is good for you. Right. And that's probably what I would say, Megan and I, I don't know. That's hard to say. Yeah. And I think that that works great. Maybe you're okay with 75%, but just know that there's no job, I don't think, or probably very rare that it would be a hundred percent of your time. Right. Um, and that's saying that you can test out with internships and, and, um, doing some of those informational interviewing that Megan referred to.

Megan Riksen:

Yeah. Um, those are great questions to ask, like get down to the nitty gritty with someone. What percentage of your time are you sitting at, at your desk? Yes. What does that actually look like in this role?

Grace Pushman:

Well, and even thinking about that. So I think sometimes when you think of sitting at your desk, you might equate that to slowly dying in front of your computer. Right. Great. Staring on the same thing,

Megan Riksen:

Bored out of my mind.

Grace Pushman:

Yeah. But actually, I mean, think about what you'd be doing on your computer, because it might be more exciting than you think so true. There's so much variety. And so I know for me, but part of honestly, part of my job that I'm looking at the computer the most is when I'm editing these podcasts. Yeah. And I honestly love it. You like, think it's so fun and I can, and I can sit on my couch and do it and have like some music playing and yes. You know, so I think it's thinking it too about not just will I be in front of the computer, but what would I be doing in front of the computer? Mm-hmm <affirmative> what are the tasks? And know that again, most jobs, I would say almost every job. Yeah. It's never gonna be the same thing every day. Right. There's

Megan Riksen:

Gonna be variety. Right. And are the things you're doing, like you said, bringing you energy and <laugh> get, you know, have you be excited about what you're doing? I, I have a similar thing, you know, grace and I are both career advisors, but then we do this podcast. I also work a lot with the mark marketing in our office. So I get to design things so far, I get to coordinate different aspects of our marketing strategy. Those are all things where I'm looking at my computer screen, but it's energizing because I enjoy it. And it's, it's creative, creative. Yeah. It's something different from the rest of my work. So yeah. Ask those questions, really evaluate what that's gonna look like when you're, when you're considering a type of role.

Grace Pushman:

And I would argue too, you mentioned in the last point about hands on mm-hmm <affirmative> I would argue a lot of what we just talked about is hands on. So even though you're on a computer, like creating a flyer using, um, Canva or something to make some marketing piece that feels hands on to me

Megan Riksen:

At least feels hands on. Cause it's creative. Exactly.

Grace Pushman:

So what is hands on also might look different than what you're thinking.

Megan Riksen:

For sure. Mm-hmm <affirmative> so the, the other myth is that, Ugh, if I work one of these office jobs, I'm gonna be wearing a suit every day and that doesn't sound good to me. So, um, you know, we don't wanna wear suits every day either. No, <laugh> here in the Career Center. Um, and I, I think the world of work, I know the world of work is slowly moving, more casual down the spectrum. Yep. Um, of what professional dress means. I think you could take our career fairs as a really good example of that when you're, when we had in-person career fairs and you walk around, many of the recruiters are in jeans and some sort of a branded t-shirt or polo. Um, and that is very, very common in workplaces. So, so many companies have adapted what would be called a dress for your day, where if you have an important client meeting, maybe you get, you know, up the professional level of dress.

Megan Riksen:

Um, but often companies would do casual Fridays. You can wear jeans, be a little more casual. Um, so you know, many, many office environments now are not gonna be that stuffy have to wear a suit, have to be kind of buttoned up in this professional way all the time. Um, and so you can investigate that before you, you know, even apply, get on their Instagram page, what are they showing their employees doing and wearing, um, in the informational interviews again, those are also great questions to ask. Um, and then just evaluate how much of a value are you? Are you placing on that? Yeah. And all of these things, all tie together. Cause if you do have some flexibility where you're working remotely, maybe you are okay with three days a week needing to get pretty dressed up, but you know, you're gonna have your two days at home yep. Where you can wear whatever you want. So I, you know, it all comes back to yeah. What, what do you really value in, in the work that you're doing and, and what the workplace and work environment looks like.

Grace Pushman:

Exactly. Because you might find that you love the work enough and the people you work with enough that you can, you can stomach wearing. Mm-hmm <affirmative> some more formal attire. However, I do think that a lot of places are moving more away from that. So you might be able to avoid that a little bit. So hopefully with these few myths that we talked about, you're feeling a little bit better about the idea of potentially working in an office someday. Um, if you think this career path might include some office work, which I think probably most do. Yes. You might be surprised <laugh>, um, it might not be as bad as you think. And if you're recognizing that you might need a balance of hands on work along with office work that's okay. And again, that's probably the majority of jobs that you're gonna look at. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, mm-hmm <affirmative> um, connect with the career center and we can help you to explore jobs and research industries, connect with people to do some of those informational interviews. Um, and, and we can help look into all that so that you can find a place that would be a good fit for you.

Megan Riksen:

For sure. I agree. Yes. Do your research as always yes. As always. All right. Well, thank you so much to everyone for listening and we hope you tune in to a future episode soon.