Carlos Martinez (02:22):

Good Morning, Good Afternoon, Good Evening and Welcome back to another “Work like a Laker” podcast. I am Carlos Martinez and like always I’m joined by

 

Megan Riksen (02:32):

Megan Riksen

 

Carlos Martinez (02:33):

Our guest today is a GVSU professor, Dr. Adrienne Wallace, an assistant professor in the Advertising and Public Relations department, but is also a digital strategist and project manager at Black Truck Media Marketing. How are you doing?

Adrienne Wallace (02:49):

Good, How are you? Thanks for inviting me!

 

Carlos Martinez (02:51):

Doing alright. So, should we…

Adrienne Wallace (02:54):

I’m also an alum!

 

Carlos Martinez, Megan Riksen and Adrienne Wallace (02:55):

[Inaudible]

 

Megan Riksen (03:01):

Oh my goodness. So what, what were the three undergrad?

 

Adrienne Wallace (03:04):

My undergrad was HealthCom in Advertising and Public Relations. I have a grad degree, my masters, in Communications and then a masters in Public Administration. And at that time there was like a, it was Public Administration and Government Relations and now I think it's a little bit different program, but yeah, in this very building.

 

Megan Riksen (03:26):

Wow. What do you know? And then you went somewhere else for the PhD.

 

Adrienne Wallace (03:30:)

Yeah, I got my PhD from Western last September. It's just about a year.

 

Carlos Martinez (03:33):

Congratulations. That’s so fresh.

 

Adrienne Wallace (03:35):

It's very fresh. So I don't have my students usually call me doctor, but I, I'll, I'll allow it.

 

Carlos Martinez, Megan Riksen, Adrienne Wallace (03:37)

Yeah, we'll use it. I know. Yeah, totally. I paid for that. It's fine. Exactly. The money though, it's a lot of work.

 

Adrienne Wallace (03:48):

It was a lot of work. Five years. What I tell people usually is five years, 50 pounds, $50,000.

 

Megan Riksen (03:56):

Oh my goodness. Seriously?

 

 

Adrienne Wallace (04:02):

You know like, the freshman fifteen? it's like much because you have nothing else, right? Yes. Right. Ah goodness. So yeah, so that's my commercial for everyone. Go get their doctorate. Sounds fun, right?

Carlos Martinez (04:19):

This brought something to mind. So, yeah, this was the little perfect example of personal branding. Oh yeah, there you go. Which is the base of this episode, right? Sure. We get a basic introduction, but there's a certain way that you're marketing, right?

Carlos Martinez (04:29):

There's always a story that you're telling us about yourself, but that also helps establish you as an expert because you're part of those undergrad if some of those graduates are focused in this field. Absolutely. And that's pretty cool. So, a personal brand, why is that important?

 

Adrienne Wallace (04:46):

 Well, I think if you asked, you know, 10 people, you'd get 10 different definitions on what this even is. In my opinion, the importance of personal branding in general... I don't, I don't necessarily think you need to like have a logo and all of that. I mean, some people go to that degree, but having a personal brand is just one way by which other people identify you and come to know you and what your maybe work ethic is or what your, where your talents lie. And it's important because you need people to rely on sort of...I guess it's sort of like a stereotype, honestly.

Adrienne Wallace (05:20):

In order to understand what it is that you bring, what the value is that you have and what they can expect from you time and time again.

So it's, you know, one part who you are, what you are, but it's also what you'll actually do. And how you know those results will be achieved and what people can rely on. I can't oversell the importance of being exactly who you say you are and doing what you say you will do. Whatever you want to call that is fine, but that's essentially what comprises a personal brand.

 

Carlos Martinez (05:58):

And that's key, right? Because it's not just about creating this, this fake persona to get you a job.

 

Adrienne Wallace (06:03):

Oh yeah, that's how it kind of started though. If you want to think about the evolution of personal brand it's really like what, you know, what did you want people to know you for? But then I think, you know, people see through that.

 

Megan Riksen (06:17):

You know, we have so many opportunities to let people see through it.

 

 

Adrienne Wallace (06:22):

Absolutely. It's you know, and in public relations we're always talking about transparency and authenticity. And I think all of those things lend really well to the discussion at hand, which is, you know, are you the kind of person that does what you say will do? And it used to be, you know, like who you knew and who was willing to do stuff with you and now it's, who's willing to do stuff for you because you're doing the right things? So it's definitely kind of evolved, I think. Especially as social media has become more transparent and more every day. It's not like- you can't just put up a sign and say that's who you are. You actually have to do it now.

Megan Riksen (06:57):

Sure. So my question with that, since you brought up social media you know, when we're talking with students as career advisors, we're saying, yeah, you know, privacy is good in terms of social media, but where do you stand on that? Is it better to just be an open book to every audience or should you try to cater...?

 

Adrienne Wallace (07:21):

Yeah, that's tough. I think it depends a little bit on the industry that you're seeking to maybe practice in later. I think that it depends on who, who you've been publicly until this point in your life and who you want to be as you progress through your career. This whole like students will have like this like fake account and then like a real account...like we see that. I mean like it's hiring people that are hiring or hiring agents. You know, we noticed that kind of stuff.

And honestly in Public Relations or Advertising, I would go so far as to say marketing and most communications driven majors for career, if, if we don't see it and see that it's active, we're going to ask the questions like why don't you? Or are you hiding something or you know, are you trying to be less than honest or earnest with us? And we'll start asking those questions. And honestly I think it's, I think it's way more uncomfortable to have to answer those questions in an interview setting. For example, than it would be to just not be a jerk. Don't be a jerk on social media and so if you can't separate, I guess that then I think you kind of don't deserve to have that job that you're really looking forward to being a communication vessel for another brand or person.

Adrienne Wallace (08:36):

So privacy, I mean do we even really have privacy?

 

Megan Riksen (08:44)

I don't know, that's the thing. I feel like that has been changing.

 

Adrienne Wallace (08:50):

But my husband so astutely pointed out to me last night as we were talking about this, he works in PR too. I said, I don’t understand what’s the big deal of just being who we are? I’m like a “what you see is what you get” kind of gal. BUT, I also know that that is not okay for everybody. But I’m not going to, you know, go work in government or in a government situation or have to be very conservative to work at a company. Like, I’m not going to do that.

Megan Riksen (09:14):

Right! That just wouldn’t be a good fit.

 

Adrienne Wallace (09:18):

Right. You have to know yourself. As you’re sort of building who you are as a person, this branding thing doesn’t have to be so overt. Like it doesn’t have to be something where you’re like “okay. Step one: must get all..” Like it doesn’t have to be that. It doesn’t have to be that stiff. You know, I’ll go back to like the simplicity of it- do what you say you’re gonna do, be exactly who it is that you are.

But I think people are really uncomfortable sometimes with that. Like, they want to be something different maybe and show people this like fancy or sparkly exterior…

 

Megan Riksen (09:57):

Do you have any advice on how you kind of… cause especially in college you’re like figuring out who you are. So, do you have any advice on what like a “pre-step one” would look like?

 

Adrienne Wallace (10:02):

Oh, absolutely! I was just doing an exercise. My first night of classes was yesterday, and in my Capstone class we actually bring you guys in and you do a professional development portion for us. And in my first class I always start with a “how do you solve problems”? Something really basic, and you think like, right, I know how to do that. But if you draw out the process in which you solve problems yourself, that’s actually a lot to think about. And I don’t think we give ourselves the latitude to really discover how it is we do things or how it is that we process things or even really thinking anymore, because we’re a doing society.

And so, looking at that kind of holistically, I feel that you have to really put some time into understanding who you are, what kind of employee you might be and what kind of environment might be good for you. When you first graduate, what’s kind of really on your mind is “please don’t let me have to sleep in my parents basement for the next 6-8 months while I figure out how to make my student loan payments”. Really take the time to be reflective of things that make you happy, but also a list of things that may really suck- I think that’s a valid list to have too, and really understanding who you are, what you stand for, what you won’t stand for and I think really taking time to just digest that from Freshman year to Senior year. And obviously, you are not the whole person you will ever be right after you graduate college. Reflection really does matter, and I don’t think we take the time to make those gains and understand who we really are.

And you do evolve- people evolve. Do they change? One day you’re this and then… I don’t think so, I think people are pretty good at showing you who they are, but I think over time you become a different version or like a different level of that.

 

Megan Riksen (12:04):

Like an upgrade of yourself.

 

Adrienne Wallace (12:06):

Right. A lot of times when I have students, even in advising hours, I find it really interesting that the conversation that we start with is “um, I need some help with my classes” the conversation we usually end up having is “what is it that I like and don’t like” or what is it that I’m willing to do in a group, what am I missing? We’re the people business. It’s education and we deliver education, but it’s people helping people.

 

Megan Riksen (12:35):

I feel like we see that a lot in our office. Everybody comes in to talk about their resume and it very rarely ends up being that we just only talk about that.

 

Adrienne Wallace (12:46):

I really respect that about places that understand that it’s not just about the words on the paper, but about the people and the feelings behind that. So I really admire that about you guys here.

 

Carlos Martinez (13:00):

I feel like we should be giving you the praise but you’re the one here praising us, I don’t know how to feel about that, but we’ll take it, we’ll take it.

 

Adrienne Wallace (13:09):

I have a lot of respect for any institutionalized service. I mean, you know, that’s what we’re all sitting in, that allows you to come back after you graduate and it’s like forever. You don’t just leave this campus. Some places charge for that! Did you know that? Someone was telling me that they got kind of bad advice from one of their friends and alumni from another state institution, which we will not name on this show, but they said that they charge for the service after you graduate. I was like, Grand Valley doesn’t do that. And, you know, you probably would love to get more people to come back and have that sort of touch point with you.

 

Megan Riksen (13:57):

 I mean it's great cause we get, of course the alums coming back who need help, who are making a change or something happened and they, and they need some assistance. But I mean overwhelmingly we have alumni coming back who want to give back.

 

Carlos Martinez (14:10):

And even beyond wanting to help, it also fits nicely into the university's claims of Laker for a Lifetime. This is one of our little ways of trying to fulfill that. Right? So kind of have our, our value center actions match up with what the university is claiming to be. The public brand. Right? Because there's the action piece, but there's also what you, what you proclaiming.

Adrienne Wallace (14:39):

Yeah. And before we had like a marketing campaign about Laker Magic, I mean we always talked about like the grand or the Laker Effect. We always talked about the Grand Valley magic. Like that's been a thing for a really long time. So I think that that's just part of it is that despite being, I mean we're bigger than Western and student population as I understand it. And despite being like a fairly good size institution now we still have the perks and benefits that we had when I was an undergraduate at like, I don't know, like eight or 9,000 or maybe 10,000.  You know, the buildings have changed but a lot of, yeah, a lot of, some the two I am usually in, but that, you know, it really matters I think for just seeing like tradition and value and not just saying those words, but really making that happen I think is really important. That's the brand that is saying, wow, Grand Valley's personal commitment.

Carlos Martinez (14:56):

Your comment a couple minutes back reminded me of something when you say, you know, we might still be the same person at the core, but we'll evolve our perspectives or angles. A question that I get when I've talked about branding or personal branding in classrooms would be, well, what about my prior posts? I have no idea what I posted junior year of high school. I have no idea. I'm a senior now who in the world knows what I was doing as a freshman on social media. And so what I always share with them is, you know, there's different strategies that I might recommend. One, some people would just start from scratch, delete, whatever that old profile was. It's the internet - so in some way, shape or form, it's good to assume that it's live somewhere, but that's a good tactic, right? There are some filters where you can search through old posts and kind of manually start deleting them or updating them if you want to. How do you approach those types of questions?

Adrienne Wallace (16:14):

Well, I mean, there are lots of good ways to do that. I think there's, there are two different categories of things, silly things that children do, you know, dumb kids that you post. And then there's like horrible things that should probably have never been posted, which I hope nobody I know falls into that category, but I'm sure that exists.

 

Megan Riksen (16:38):

Or perhaps expressing a viewpoint that you really don't agree with anymore or something.

 

Adrienne Wallace (16:46):

I've seen some very, I don't know. I would say I would go so far as to say wildly inappropriate student contacts and student content. And one, I mean, I think it's important to talk about that. Like, are you that person, you know, like what does that mean to you? What did that mean to you? Was that an accident? Did you feel, you know, what were the circumstances beyond that?

The other thing to know is like, it's pretty, pretty rare unless you're running for public office, but someone would go back years. It would be very rare. Now, if it was something really heinous. Racism. I mean, there's like a lot of things that fall into that category, right? And I think you should probably like you said, abandoned ship and start new with a new fresh sort of brand. Or you go in and selectively, you know, change those things, but that doesn't... just because they're gone from your account doesn't mean they're deleted from the internet or the history of the internet. Screenshots exist. I mean there's all sorts of things that exist. And people are very industrious.

Carlos Martinez (17:55):

And they will friend official Grand Valley Snapchat accounts without realizing that now that Grand Valley institutional account is seeing what they're posting.

Adrienne Wallace (18:03):

We should definitely have another episode on just like terms and conditions of social media.

Carlos Martinez (11:36):

We've all seen at some point an article somewhere in the news somebody got fired due to something they posted online. But, there is the flip side to it, right? For those folks who decide, Hey, I'm going to make it public but I'm going to be intentional with it. I have a friend who made a post online that went viral. It was a political post.  But it didn't impact her job and in this case actually got her some paid speaking engagements and so it created a new lane for what she thought was her form of personal brand when now she's public speaker and it's something she's been developing. And so again, it's almost like a double edged sword. It can be used with great powers, great responsibility. How are you going to use that? That access that you now have to the world.

Adrienne Wallace (18:56):

Right. I think that something that, that has not been taught well in let's say, I don't know, whenever students are children and become social media engaged and that could be their parents taking pictures of them and posting them, which is going to become a thing. Like it's going to be a situation soon when, right. That becomes a little bit more I don't know out there in terms of privacy. We haven't really had that discussion publicly yet. It's coming though... But the other thing is like, I don't, I just, we didn't train them. Like we gave them these tools and we set them free and we thought everything would be okay. And it turns out you don't make very good decisions when you're like, let's say in elementary school about certain things. Right?

 

Carlos Martinez (19:32):

My daughter's six and asked me for a YouTube channel last week.

 

Megan Riksen (19:38):

Oh wow. What'd you say?

 

Carlos Martinez (19:40):

What I told her is if we make one, I'm not going to tell her this part, every video will be private. The only thing is we'll send the private link to family. That's the only way. It's a reasonably great creative outlet. And if we did that, you just gave me another teaching moment, we'll start talking about what we post online right now. I can incorporate that. We don't put that online and we don't say these things

 

Adrienne Wallace (20:09):

or if it's something, you know, a lot of times I just, you know, again, that goes back to that deep conversation that we just started having with people anymore about, about issues or topics. I was just having a good conversation with my colleagues from another university, we do some research together and he and I were talking about just civil discourse in general. And we just don't do a very good job of that because we've gone straight to name calling. In any capacity, whatever party you represent in any space, there's an example of that. And I, I just don't think we have really thought about the true permanency of the social media history. You know, of the, we were always threatened when I was a kid with like the permanent record.This is going in your permanent record. What's that? A file was that in the cabinet? Where does it lie? Who has it? Who's the owner of my permanent record? Okay. It turns out like Google is. Google is the owner of your permanent record. It exists. So like really kind of considering, you know, taking time to not just be reactive and to be more, you know, reflective instead of reflexive and just thinking about that before you post. I mean, that has to become part of, you know, who you are now. That's all part of your identity. However you, you know, you choose to slice it. That's just, it is what it is. That's what my dad would say.

 

Carlos Martinez (21:25):

The final little piece I'd add on it comes to the online brand- it can go beyond social media, right? There are people who create blogs and that's part of their brand. There's people who might write articles for a newspaper or an online digital publication. And those are also ways that you can build it for yourself intentionally. But moving forward from the internet. So in the real world, what are some real world ways that you communicate your brand or that people start envisioning you in a certain way?

Adrienne Wallace (21:59):

I think- I don’t know. I think a lot about this because I feel like I have a pretty decent network in Grand Rapids and beyond- and I only moved here like nine years ago, so I lived, you know, not far. I was on the Lakeshore, but that was a whole nother network of people and such. And so when I got here I mean, I didn't really have a network, so when I started here. I think what does that look like from, you know, from starting from scratch. And part of that is like, people have to trust you and take your word for something. People could like, look through your history maybe and see what you did in another area if you're like moving States or maybe regions or something. But again, I'm going to go back to do what you say you're going to do.

Have the integrity to manage that part of it. And West Michigan is one of these unique places that honestly, people are pretty trustworthy and, and trust also both sides of that. Typically if they say something will happen or they're going to do it, they do. That's not the like probably true for other parts of maybe the world or even the United States. So I think that it varies. We're still kind of small, small towny even though sometimes we think we might be Chicago but we're not. So I think, you know, just really being diligent about making forging connections that are true. Not just going out and like spraying the town with like, you know, wanting to get more, I think like we're to the point of where the number isn't as important as the value of the relationship.

So instead of having, you know, 10,000 LinkedIn contacts or maybe have like a few thousand good ones like that you can really go to and that would really come to you to provide value because it's not popular and like being popular doesn't mean anything. Almost just swore. It doesn't mean anything anymore. Trying to keep it clean here, kids. It doesn't mean anything anymore. It really is what value do you provide and how can you help somebody and then how can they help you? People like helping people. That's like part of who we are as humans. True.

 

Carlos Martinez (24:00):

That goes hand in hand with the idea of networking. Right? Finding true and authentic relationships.

 

Adrienne Wallace (24:08):

 It's about absolutely right. Yeah. Transparent, authentic. I mean the hallmarks of, you know, PR professionals are the same that you would want to build normal relationships. In general, not, not just with your business network, but with people.

Megan Riksen (24:22):

Right. You know, so what do you recommend to the students you're teaching in terms of building a network and how that connects to your brand?

 

Adrienne Wallace (24:26):

I mean, first you have to be visible, just show up. You know, some of that is just showing up. I think there's a lot, I think I'm seeing a lot more students with a lot more anxiety about social interaction and engagement. And part of that is not having to do a lot of face to face engagement, at least meaningful engagement, I would say transactional engagement is still pretty high. You go to the grocery store, you go get gas in your car, like you're going to always have that thing. But doing so with a purpose, you know, being intent driven instead of you know, instead of trying to make more, try to make better, I guess, connections.

So if that means that you're seeking a job in like marketing or public relations or advertising, you know, you have professional organizations that foster those relationships organically and as a result of the membership, just who they are. So like AMA, AD Federation, In-Town, and then PM and West Michigan PRSA and those are good starting points, right? So they're already like, as Seth Godin would say, your tribe, they're your people. So they already understand because they've gone through the same journey that you're on and they're on the other side of it. And so the best card to play is your student card. Hi, I'm a student. Usually you can just shut up after that because especially people in communications driven industry, which is, you know what, I can speak to the best are willing to tell their story and share it with you and to help further what your goals are.

Adrienne Wallace (25:40):

And I think that's like a, just such a beautiful thing about, you know, this idea of mentoring people and relationships and like giving back to younger generations is that you did this once. So what was it like for you? And a lot of times, like I said, the student could walk up to a professional, I've seen this a million times and you know, happened in real life where they're just like, I'm a student at Grand Valley. I'm a junior. My last internship was at, you know, Experience Grand Rapids or something. And then it's almost, you know, like bingo. After that, it's like, Oh, do you know Stephanie there or do you know Dave there? And it just sort of like, you know, moves and moves. The other thing is to really kind of invest in what the alumni base is at your own institution.

So very regularly I'll have a student that's like, I'm looking to work in public relations in a hospital and then I will say, okay, go through my LinkedIn and find, you know, five people that you want to be introduced to, that have jobs that you want and then I'll make that connection for you. So it's not a cold call. Of the people I say that to like, I dunno, 10% do it actually. And I mean those small connections, just a person saying, I know this person and sort of vouch for them or they're looking to learn more or to do more and they want to be like you. I mean, who? Like, who wouldn't think that that was flattering or a great starting point? Hardly anybody that I introduced people to say no. If they do, they say no and pass them onto somebody else as a, as a means.

 

Adrienne Wallace (27:18):

Like I can't right now, this quarter is super hectic for my life or you know, whatever. But like, my colleague works in media relations. How about that? So just like using your network that you have, I don't think students sometimes think of their professors as part of their network or Career Services as part of their network. Even your fellow classmates. You know, which brings me back then to the next thing I would recommend would be pre-professional organizations that exist on our campus. I mean, you probably know this number. I don't, but I know it's big. How, like, how many student organizations are there?

Carlos Martinez (27:50):

When I left Admissions, there were over 400 and that was three years ago.

Adrienne Wallace (21:21):

Yeah. And that,, you know, student or campus life night or whatever was just a couple of nights ago actually. Yeah. Two nights ago. Sunday. So, you know, that's an opportunity to just be introduced on a very like, casual level to like. I mean, that was hundreds of organizations that night. Right. and finding, you know, through your major, what the pre-professional organization is. So for us it's PRSSA and we have an AD club too. And in Marketing it's AMA- they all have student groups that associate with a parent group. And so really being able to like capitalize on the relationship of the mom and parent groups. So like PRSSA Grand Valley, their mother chapter is West Michigan PRC. That's a natural introduction. But yet again, a lot of people never ask. And then you might have like Dr. Penning in our group, in our major, he serves on a national committee.

Adrienne Wallace (28:47):

So then he has access to national board members and I serve at a regional capacity for the East Central district of that same organization. So I have access to a different set of people. I just don't think that we take the time again to really flush out what that looks like and how it could benefit you know, ourselves when we are students because I think the whole, like, we're so busy thing, it's in the way. And I mean really, if you think you're busy right now, just wait until you have a baby or you know, whatever. Exactly. That's a whole other level.

Carlos Martinez (29:00):

And, and you know, your comment on just getting out there,  just rings true every year. So it's October right now, and so there is a freshman student who will show up to the Career Fair in a few weeks and leave with an internship and they have no idea that they're going to get one. But the employers were so impressed that here's a, you know, 17, 18, 19 year old freshmen and they're, you know, sometimes they're visibly nervous and scared, but the, the fact that you get out there is very impressive to a lot of employers because they can train you and some of the other things.

Adrienne Wallace (29:50):

And I oftentimes will say, yeah, it's totally scary, but you should do it anyway.

 

Carlos Martinez (29:54):

That’s where growth happens.

Adrienne Wallace (29:55):

Feel the fear and kind of do it anyway applies to a lot of situations in life, I think. And we have just graduated, a student name was Courtney. She used to run our podcast through PRSSA and she was really nervous about that despite having like a us, like a recording background for singing. She's like a voice person person. And she was like, you know, my dream is to do this or that. And I was like, so why aren't you doing it? And she was like, well, then I'd have to like move to Vegas. And I was like, cool, send me a postcard. You know, like, just, you mean there's no better time to take those deep risks than  right then.

 

Carlos Martinez (30:36):

Our last episode was risk taking.

Adrienne Wallace (30:40):

And it's, there's just no better time. But you know, one thing she said was she used to, she used to come to all of the West Michigan PRSA luncheons, and she would do our blogging recap for us to publish on the website and people, I mean, to this day, say “ Oh, whatever happened to Courtney”,  cause they saw her, she was like one of the only students that would show up. She was visible because she's, you know, 20 years, at least,younger than everybody else in the room. And that went a long way and she didn't have to do like cartwheels and performed like a sign of like dancing with the stars where she just showed up and showed up and was consecutive. She was exactly who she was and she did, you know, good work. And that went a long way with a lot of those members because they’re gonna wonder what happened to her, and if she decides to move back to Michigan that becomes another entry point. So, again, just show up. I think that, it is scary. I mean, I’m a classic omnivert. I love staying at home and watching some Netflix, but if I’m going to go out to a networking event I am probably shutting it down.

 

Carlos Martinez (31:56):

What was that word again?

 

Megan Riksen (31:57):

I was going to ask that too.

 

Adrienne Wallace (31:58):

I think it’s Omnivert.

 

Carlos Martinez (32:04):

I think I might be that, what is that?

 

Adrienne Wallace (32:06):

You get your energy from two different areas.

 

Carlos Martinez (32:10):

I’m a person who is a true introvert. If I have to be at an event I can turn a switch on but I’m just exhausted afterwards.

 

Adrienne Wallace (32:12):

You have to go home and recharge after it.

 

Carlos Martinez (32:20):

Yes. I’m being authentic, but I can engage in a social setting.

 

Megan Riksen (32:28)

And then you’re totally spent afterwards.

 

Carlos Martinez (32:32):

Right, right.

 

Adrienne Wallace (32:36):

I think a lot of people want to be part of the action, but I don’t think they know how to get to that point of making it out of their house. But I tell people, again, just show up.

 

Carlos Martinez (32:53):

Alright, as we start wrapping up, we have a little segment here where we have this [inaudible] it’s called “Would you hire this intern”? I’ll let Megan get to the fun part.

 

Megan Riksen (33:02):

Alright, so I have a little scenario, Dr. Wallace and you’re going to tell us your thoughts. So, your intern has visible tattoos that cover a substantial portion of skin.

 

Adrienne Wallace (33:19):

Wait, is she interviewing or is she already my intern?

 

Megan Riksen (33:22):

Already your intern. Yes, and it’s a he today. He often covers his tattoos with button ups but occasionally does not, would you hire this intern?

 

Adrienne Wallace (33:34):

Well, I already hired him.

 

Megan Riksen (33:36)

Would you hire for full-time after the internship?

 

Adrienne Wallace (33:40):

This is kind of a trick question honestly. The communications industry is a lot more, maybe liberal than other industries. But I will say I’ve been in a situation with a young person, where, depending on the client we have served, it would determine my idea about this. Yes- I would hire them. If they’re doing good work I’m going to hire them. I don’t care about any of that, but there would have to be a conversation had about what’s appropriate for what client or what industry or where we might serve. Depending on content, that would add some discrepancies.

 

Megan Riksen (34:35):

That was a little twist we were going to throw at you. What if the tattoo was of a giant Marijuana leaf?

 

Adrienne Wallace (34:40):

We’re kind of at a different place now with that… You know, it’s really about the client, it’s not about us. It doesn’t matter that I am comfortable with my new employee and his, you know, giant marijuana leaf tattoo. It doesn’t matter because it is not about me, it’s about the client. If the client is not comfortable with it or if I think they may not be comfortable with it, then that is a business decision not a personal decision. Because this is about their ethics and values as a business or institution. I think that’s a pretty easy one for comm or communications but if this were accounting or something that would be a completely different situation, right? But I feel like that in creative areas, self expression is something that they pay us to do.

 

Megan Riksen (35:37):

Sure, which probably goes back to personal brand.

 

Adrienne Wallace (35:40):

Yes, it’s what your style is, what your personality is, what your attitude is, your level of enthusiasm- all of those things are part of that same package. But yeah, it is definitely something to consider- it’s like one of those things that’s a part of your literal permanent record, but on your skin, where you decide “will this impact the career I’m thinking about getting or could it potentially do that?” because there are dress codes in institutions where that is not okay and it’s almost expected in other types of institutions if you don’t have them. That’s something you really have to consider, in my opinion.

 

Carlos Martinez (36:30):

Well, Dr. Wallace, thanks again for all of your time. And folks, here are a couple of little tips, I know we’ve mentioned it once or twice, but Career Fair is coming up on October 16th and some of you might be nervous, might have questions and stuff- there is a section on our website under students and events where you can find Career Fair tips. If you’re on Pinterest, we have a really good board there with advice for anything from how to talk to employers to how you dress. And, it’s @GVSUCAREERS. Of course, we have things like the resume guide. To make things easier, come into our office in Allendale and  in our downtown campus we'll have walk in hours, I think all day long, right? Yeah. All day long. Just come in, we should have somebody in there either a student staff or a career advisor that can meet with you and talk about any questions you might have.

 

Adrienne Wallace (37:28):

You're going to have to build those deeper relationships.

 

Megan Riksen (37:30):

Exactly. Which can start at a Career Fair.

 

Carlos Martinez (37:32):

 Absolutely. All right. Thank you so much. And we will catch up with you all next month.