Carlos Martinez (03:57):

All right, welcome back. Uh, again, Carlos Martinez and Mikan Rickson here and in studio we have Brian Bossick from the university counseling center. Hey Brian. Hi. How's it going? Good, good. So, you know, uh, you know your background better than we do and so we're just going to start it off. Can you just tell us a little bit about your background, your training, and, uh, you know, what you do at Grand Valley? Yeah, you bet. Um, I'll start with kind of what I do. I've been at Grand Valley about 11 years and I work in the counseling center and the Career Centers. So my main role is really career development and helping folks figure out who they are and how do they match that to what they wanna do. Um, so I have a bachelor's in psychology, um, and then my doctorate's in counseling psychology. So most of my job, like 70, 75% is in the career development piece. And then about 25 30% is kind of in the mental health piece. And very often is kind of that intersection and looking at how they come together.

Megan Riksen (04:52):

Totally. Which is why you're a perfect guest for our graduation anxiety topic because so much of it is around career, but we all know that there are a lot of other factors that go into anxiety around changes and things like that.

Carlos Martinez (05:06):

Absolutely. So, no, I'm glad to be here. It should be a lot of fun. Yeah. And you know, when, when we were sitting down trying to think about what a good topic would be. Uh, you know, it's March graduation seasons is, it's really going to, it's right around the corner Career Fair just passed. And so there's so many, you know, burning questions inside of students. And while we know that we get some of those concerns, you are somebody who, who works as a concert at the university. I'm sure you see a lot more of it and we thought you might be a, uh, a more pro, uh, better prepared voice of reason and advice for, you know, for students. Uh, so just to kind of start off the conversation, what, what are some of the typical emotions to see in students as they're getting ready to graduate or, or thoughts, general concerns? Yeah. Um, no good question. I, uh, I was thinking about this and it's funny, I, I thought before you get into

Brian Bossick (05:57):

the anxiety piece, like we'll talk about like some of the other pieces too, cause I think folks are excited, um, for like a variety of reasons. So it's your last final. Um, and, and you have that thought of unless you're going to grad school or other school, you know, you don't have any more tests. So there's like pure excitement around that. Um, there's also kind of like a sense of relief that maybe financially I am going to be rolling in money or something like that, so I'm not a student anymore. Um, so that's really kinda cool. And then some people to love the idea of an adventure and a challenge. Um, I think for some folks it's really scary and then others find this, the unknown is something like, great, I'll get in my car and we'll figure out where to do and then we're going to go there.

Brian Bossick (06:38):

Would you say it's possible to be feeling both of those emotions? My goodness, yes. Yeah. Yeah. I think everybody that's such a good point, um, on there can hold both. Right. And it, depending on what's going on, one side is bigger than the other. Um, so yes, you can definitely hold the excitement and the anxiety. Um, you know, the other thing I think, yeah, is his anxiety and it's just questions about what's, what's next, right. And what are you going to do with that? And are my friends changing? What am I going to be doing? Um, what's my schedule going to be like? Can I still sleep in? And you know, I have a set dinner plan that's now gone. Um, and then I think there's just a sense of loss too. So like some folks feel a little bit of that, that loss because you've, if you've been here four or five, six, seven years, you know, what, what not. You've created kind of a, a tradition for yourself and you've traded a routine. And without that it can be a little tough.

Megan Riksen (07:30):

Yup.

Carlos Martinez (07:32):

Yeah. And when, whenever I start thinking about that, it's, it's a, uh, a quote that I heard comes to mind. I don't know who said it, I don't even know if this the exact quote, but it's something around the idea that when you're experiencing some sort of discomfort that usually means you're growing in a part of your life. Yes. Right. And so what I like to tell students when they're telling me they're, they're nervous, unsure is that this is actually a natural feeling when you're progressing and getting closer to your goals. Also, I know personally it was a really scary time for me when I was getting ready to graduate. Uh, many of my friends had jobs or they were already interviewing. I had nothing. I didn't have my first interview on till about three or four weeks after graduating with my bachelor's degree. So we all have a different timeline as well.

Brian Bossick (08:17):

I think it's a great point. Um, actually that quote, I don't know where it comes from, but I was talking to a therapist here today who was talking about exactly that. They're like, they were saying something that like, well this is really uncomfortable. And they stopped and they looked at the person they said, but that's where the work gets done and the therapist is excited. The students not cause it stinks. Right. Cause it's really hard. But that is totally where the work gets done.

Speaker 5 (08:40):

[inaudible] yup. Yup.

Carlos Martinez (08:42):

Do you have any general thoughts or advice you would, you would share with students if they, let's say somebody approaches you and says they were in my position? Yeah, Brian. Um, I'm completely lost right now. I'm not sure where to go. My lease is running out. I don't have

Carlos Martinez (08:56):

a, I don't have a job. Right. And sometimes it can lead into a, a one minute conversation listing off all the challenges that they're facing. Cause it almost feels like it's always just piling up on you at once. Yeah. How do you, how do you start that? How do you, how do you respond to those sort of comments? That's, that's a good question. Um, I, I,

Brian Bossick (09:18):

I think in that kind of situation, one of the biggest things that we can try not to do is think that there is a gold standard of where you should be. Right? And that idea that this is going to be progressing along a really specific line. And if you're not on that line, then you have screwed the whole thing up. Right. Um, so I think that's one thing. And then just to unpack it a little bit, right about, so, okay, so what are some of the challenges word we want to kind of be going, what are some of the solutions and then giving yourself flexibility that your process might be a little bit slower for whatever reason, right? Maybe you started really early and it just, things hadn't worked out or maybe you're just getting started. So like how do you kind of get yourself, um, how do you set up the most important thing? So you've got a place to live, you got, you know, you've got some support for food and money and then how do you start branching out to do the other stuff?

Megan Riksen (10:07):

Right? And it's something I think that could be helpful if you are someone out there who doesn't have a job lined up, right? When you walk across the stage, I think it's okay to give yourself the freedom to say, I'm going to find a job right now where I can pay the bills because that's going to relieve a little bit of that stress of, you know, knowing where a paycheck is coming from. And then I can use time outside of that job to be conducting kind of that full on job search at that point. So do you think that strategy is, is kind of would work to think I, I'm going to take care of this more immediate need first because it's ultimately going to help me with some of these bigger things? Definitely. Yeah.

Brian Bossick (10:48):

No, cause I think too, like one of the biggest things that people struggle with is when there is a lack of structure, it's just really hard to kind of get rolling. And so if you have a job and you have a sense of structure, then you have like that defined sleep schedule, other kinds of things. So that helps get stuff done. I've talked to lots of students who really struggled to get into a group with this kind of stuff until they had something in place. And that could be a job that could be a place to stay, that could be even like a, an a service thing that they were doing for three months. Um, cause it, at least they had to get up there to get stuff done. So totally agree.

Megan Riksen (11:20):

Yeah. And you think, Oh, but I won't have as much time to be working toward whatever that the end goal is the job or applying to grad school or whatever it is. But yeah, it helps to have that structure and routine. Or you could, you know, be waking up in the morning and thinking you're going to put three hours into it and time just pass it. We were talking

Brian Bossick (11:43):

about like OCD and obsessing. Right. But sometimes if you have too much time are you do is obsess over the details and you really don't focus or you find out that there's too much to think about and you freeze. And so I think having, I think it's a great suggestion and can definitely work.

 

Carlos Martinez (12:04):

You know, it's funny you said that about too much time. I, my, I think my best semester in college was when I was working about 30 hours a week as a senior. Yeah. And it's because it forced me to structure my study time in a, in a much more intentional way that I, that I didn't have to do prior to that. Exactly.

 

Brian Bossick (12:20):

You know, when we think about like getting ready for all this stuff, um, you know, one of the most helpful things is for students to think about like the job search, the grad school search professional school search as almost like a three credit class, right?

Brian Bossick (12:27):

That you've and that you continue to do what you're normally doing, but you've got these additional kind of responsibilities. So, Hey, you keep yourself busy and you kind of look at, there's responsibilities and obligations toward this that will kind of keep you moving forward. So I totally agree. Yeah. And as students start coming in, and again, I, I, we say students, but really this is for anyone who's listening, right? It could be alumni, it could be just a friend who likes Grand Valley in checks us out. Uh, when you encounter some of these potential roadblocks in your search, I, it's also a good time to reflect and assess where you're at. Right? So maybe you got rejected for an interview. Um, can we take a second look at that resume stat. An area we can improve. If he did get an interview, was there, was there, uh, was there something that you can change or improve about your interviewing skills?

Brian Bossick (13:14):

And so throughout the entire process you can continue reflecting and just growing as a professional, no abs. Absolutely. And I think it's like, it is a perfect time to kind of look at where you are on in. It's really a cycle, right? So you're going to go forward one direction and then maybe you kind of need to go back just a little bit to kind of polish up something else and go back forward.

 

Carlos Martinez (13:53):

So you're always assessing and if, if there is a student right now who, who maybe says this is a lot for me, I just want to talk to somebody. What does the process look like to get connected with the counseling center or to get connected with you directly if it's a career specific sort of thing? Yeah, that's a great question. I think there's, there are probably two steps you could take.

Brian Bossick (14:00):

Um, so you can call the Career Center and say, Hey, you know, I, I, I'm struggling a little bit with like this transition for graduation. I'm really anxious. Uh, and I've just don't know what option to do. I don't have a plan in place. And they'll kind of work with either myself or say like Nick who often kind of deals with folks as they're doing this kind of career transition stuff. Yep. You call the counseling center and say, I've got, you know, I'm feeling really anxious and I want to talk to somebody who deals with like transition anxiety, anxiety about graduating. And I think we could definitely get them connected. Um, you know, as we talked about or alluded to a little bit earlier, it's a, it's a combination of like anxiety just in general, but also some really concrete steps that you can do to kind of work with that. So we want to kind of help you format, form a plan, figure out where you are, where do you want to get to. But also then like think about like how do you put supports in place right now to kind of help you through that.

Megan Riksen (14:52):

Hopefully that's where this kind of March timeline of this podcast coming out. Like sure we're getting close but there still is time to come in and see someone to take some steps then on that plan of making that happen when you're working with students. Um,

Megan Riksen (15:11):

Do you find when you're kind of creating these plans of what's to come next? I guess from my perspective in the Career Center, typically those plans are all career related. Go and talk to this person, go and research this company, those sorts of steps. What are, what are kind of the personal care, the self care, those other steps that might be a part of kind of to go alongside that. Like really action oriented career plan.

Brian Bossick (15:36):

Good point. Um, I think one of the big things is looking at, well a couple of things. Looking at your support system. So who is it that you feel comfortable talking about this? If you think about our friends, we often have friends that are like, for this situation, I can talk to this person for this one, for this. Um, who else might be Garrett graduating, who's not going to be competitive and try to put like make this worse. Right? So like who is the person that I can commiserate with is going to support me. Um, you know, and maybe that's a family member who like all in or maybe they're not cause all they do is ask you about like why did not get a job? Do you have a job, do have a job

Megan Riksen (16:10):

graduating. All of my roommates already had jobs so they were not the right people to talk to cause they made me feel so much worse cause I didn't, I wasn't at that point.

Brian Bossick (16:19):

Yeah. So I think that's a big part of it. Like you want to look at who your support system is. Um, you do want to keep some structure just because like that's going to keep you from kind of getting too stuck down. So doing the things that help you thinking about that structure. Um, if this is going to carry over. So you know it's March now, but if you're thinking, ah, maybe it's going to be may thinking ahead a little bit. Like that might be the shift of a conversation I work with somebody on. So like, okay, so you're going to graduate, you're going to walk, you're still engaged in this, but wherever you're going to be next month, how do we build this there too? Or how do we build like, okay, this is the coffee shop I go to to do my research and I go to Barnes and noble and do this and this is where I go work out. Like how do you take what's been effective here in port it to wherever you are to kind of keep the momentum going. Yeah.

Megan Riksen (16:59):

And really in like you said, in real tangible ways, like planning out where you're going to sit to be doing these things. I like that.

Brian Bossick (17:06):

Yeah. Cause you know, it could be your bedroom, but maybe it's your bedroom back home and suddenly that brings back all kinds of stuff and you're like, I'm not employed. So, listen, I don't want to feel like I'm 15 exactly, exactly. Older and out there on my own. Yeah. I'm staring at my like new kids on the block poster on the wall. Gosh. Right. Or whatever the equivalent would be of like, I know, you know, growing up in the nineties I guess that's right there right now. That's probably a little dated. Oh yeah, exactly. Exactly. Exactly. So, no, I think those kinds of things right now when you think about that, there's the career part of it, but there's also the personal and it's looking at all those different factors. Awesome. Yeah. And you know, while

Carlos Martinez (17:50):

on the topic of, of scheduling and planning for the future, um, do you have any thoughts on or recommendation on how students can balance the, the current reality that today they still have classes, they still have homework and projects do, but they are thinking ahead towards may, June, July when they're hopefully going to be working or in the process of acquiring that, that first job. It's hard.

Brian Bossick (18:14):

I think it's really hard, and I was thinking about this the other day because from the beginning we're grade driven, right? And so everything's about grades, tests, projects, and it probably isn't until junior year sometimes if they're thinking about, well, I'm going to be doing this internship and it's going to be more for than a grade, right? It's for these skills. So I think part of it is always challenging a little bit of your mentality about why am I doing this? You know, I'm going to go and let's say I'm going to do informational interviews with three, three people, or go visit this company, or I'm going to do, I'm a careers in series and I'm going to go see what's up there. I don't get a grade for that, but I'm making progress on the next steps. So I think part of it's a mindset that these things are so important because it isn't just about the grades anymore. [inaudible]

Brian Bossick (18:58):

truth truthfully know. And if it, depending on what your major is or what, if you're looking at grad school, you know, as long as you graduate with a decent GPA. The idea being that you know, are folks going to go back and look at your last semester unless you failed everything? I don't know that they will, but are they going to look at like all the skills you developed and internships you've had and things like that that they will. Right. So I think at this point the focus just has to shift where you're starting to think about the grades are important, classwork is important, but how do I make sure I'm carving out time? I think as I mentioned before, like this is a three credit class and it's like the life experience class and it's the job search class. So how am I really doing that? And that's really such a key thing. Yeah,

Megan Riksen (19:38):

that's a good way to think about structuring it too. Right? Because you would sit in class for three hours ish with a three hour class or three credit class every week. Plus you're supposed to do, I mean what, like double six to nine hours of homework. So wow. Talking nine to 12 hours a week potentially working on your career. Yeah. And that doesn't need, I mean I feel like we talk about this in every podcast, but that doesn't have to be just sitting behind your computer and you know, looking at things online. But as you just mentioned, it can be getting out there and talking to people, doing those informational interviews where you're chatting with someone who's doing something that you would love to do like that. I find that that helped me in my job search when I could take it from just application after application to okay, I need to actually go and talk to someone about this. You feel like you make a lot more progress, so probably very similar to when you're talking to kind of that personal network of yours. Thinking about expanding to a little bit more of the professional network or alumni network can be useful and just, yeah, I feel like it helps you feel like you're moving forward.

Brian Bossick (20:43):

Oh. When, if you think about like if you've been, you know, let's say it's your senior year, you some friendships, so maybe your friend's parents are doing something in that field or they know somebody or you're part of a student organization or it's like an academic organization. And so they've brought in speakers, you've gotten to know them well maybe you have a position in that organization. So now you start going to these things with a different focus, right? And you're going to talk to people. And I remember as I was applying to grad school, uh, it got to the point where that I was shocked cause I was so focused on grades and having a template and all this stuff and suddenly you're like prepping for the GRE, you're preparing for these other interviews and like you really had to change your focus. And by the time I got to the second semester, my senior year, there was still a lot of stuff that had to be done. And I'm like, wait a minute, I got this thing for class. Okay, I'm going to focus on that, but I need my whole weekend. Needs to be focused on a cover letter and other things. So it's really different. But it's important. Yeah,

Megan Riksen (21:34):

absolutely. What about for the students, um, who might already have something secured so they either they've gotten into the grad school of their choice, they have a job lined up, going to be starting there probably still can be some uneasiness and anxiety just around this transition. Can you talk a little bit about just transition anxiety? What that is, what that looks like for anyone at any stage, even if you kind of do feel like your plan is in place already.

Brian Bossick (22:03):

Absolutely. And, and I think that's a really good point cause, and you think about it like folks will be like, wow, I wish I was in their shoes. Well their shoes also bring like some challenges, right? Um, no. I, I think one of the things you can start to think about is then you go to the next big questions. So where am I going to live? How am I going to afford that? Uh, one of my favorite resources is having folks go to financial aid and let's say you have a job lined up, you have a job offer, how do you start like looking at like, okay, so I'm thinking about making this when I graduated I always wanted to buy this. Like, wow, maybe I can't do that. Right? So to really like start to like think about where do I budget, where can I live?

Brian Bossick (22:37):

Um, what are the supports there? What kind of life do I want to set up? So I think you can really start doing all that cool. And it might give you a little more free time to, to think about how do you want to end your time here? You know, I think when you're not in crisis you can be a little bit more like proactive. So like what are the last things I want to do at Grand Valley? You know, did I kind of squeeze everything out of it or is there something more I want to do? Is there a Mark I want to make? Like you might have that time to, very cool. Yeah.

Carlos Martinez (23:04):

Yeah. You know, and on the topic of those who, who do get that job or you know, gain entrance into the graduate school, they still might feel inadequate. Oh yeah. I know that for me, when I started my, my first quote unquote real job after college, it was working in the admissions office at Grand Valley and I remembered looking at my arms. So it's like, what is this? I have a dress shirt on, I have slacks, I have dress shoes and a for a moment for like an out of body experience. Like this is in me. I don't belong here. A sense of imposter syndrome. That's exactly, and I think that's something a lot of young professionals feel that they're not really prepared and all these years that you know, they've been going to school wasn't.

Brian Bossick (23:46):

And while yes, there's a lot of work that you still have to do in many fields to grow into it a bit. Uh, I think some of that might, might just be our mind playing tricks on us as well. Have you encountered that at all with folks that you work with in the past?

 

Brian Bossick (24:07):

Yeah, I'm starting with myself. Right? So I think, you know, we, uh, we, we talk about, um, you know, student professional, that's always one of the terms. And, and I think most, I think until you're in it, you don't know what that means. Right? And I think you have to give yourself space to understand that maybe you won't right away. And that I think it's, it's really okay to feel like that imposter syndrome because you're going to the first day in a dress shirt and a tie. Like I used to just wear this like when I was like 13, going to these special events, you know, of my family.

Brian Bossick (24:30):

Um, suddenly people are looking at you for answers. So I think that is such a realistic thing. Um, I do think a big part of that is giving yourself some space to, to feel that it's real, but also realizing that you're gonna have a learning curve in your job and that's okay. That you've got like the basic skills to go in the, you, you've brought everything that they want to kind of help you learn about the job. But there might be moments you feel a little bit lost or you're not sure what to do and that's, that's okay. Like you're the professional seeking help versus like the student. And um, I think the other part is switching your mindset from you're going there just to learn and maybe get a good grade two, I'm going here to contribute and that takes time. And you're probably going to like realize I don't speak up as much as this per stir.

Brian Bossick (25:13):

I'm just learning to find myself or I spoke up on I shouldn't have. And that's okay. Right? You're learning. And I think most people, most companies realize that we're, we're training somebody and you're, you're coming board. So I think it's really normal to feel like that and I think it's really okay to, and given yourself some time to understand that. Um, last random thought attached to that. You know, I think that's too, if you, if you're talking to other folks in similar situations, it's a good thing. And again, this is the right kind of friend. You probably don't want to talk to the person who won't show any vulnerability. Like, no, I'm killing it. I'm like, Oh good for you. But that person that's going to probably share the exact same things, like I have no idea what they told me today. And I had to talk to some client and act like I knew what I was doing and it's a good thing they didn't see my leg shaking, you know.

Brian Bossick (25:57):

Um, so I think that's helpful too. It's fake it till you make it Oh can work. Right. It's got to right. Yeah. Cause I, I think as much as we want to be prepared, we never fully are. Um, I used to, as part of one of the assistantships in graduate school, um, we had to teach, I taught psych 101, and I would literally like script out all of my lectures with jokes included, uh, and like examples and everything at night, um, to like control anxiety. And it would never go the way I thought. Right. There'd always be questions or things. So like you, you almost have to go in there, like you're just ready to do it and prepare as best you can, but yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and as she's transitioned from, from one structure, right? So the, the university higher education world to the,

Carlos Martinez (26:44):

the again, the quote unquote real world where you're working and you figure things out, I think there's going to be that time of transitions where you allow this new schedule or routine to build itself and become what it is without maybe having to force it too much. Yes. You know, exactly. Uh, what I've, what I've noticed with some students who, who come back after, you know, recently graduating is that they tell me they're actually really bored or they, I've heard this multiple times. All I do is go to work, you know, go home, watch Netflix TV and go to sleep and do it again. And I remember for me, I did that for about two, two and a half years after graduating. And I felt that was most of what I would be doing. And I had a job that I enjoyed. But everything else around it, it started feeling kind of dull and, and very repetitive. And so for me it took finding new things that I can do, you know, working out, um, making, making a more of a planet. This I got married young, so I would make it more of a point in my wife and I maybe go out a little more every once in awhile. Exactly. So little, you know, little, little things like that can be very helpful as you're building out what this new schedule a routine will be for you. Yeah, no, I think that's

Brian Bossick (27:52):

great. Um, when you think about like coming to college, you've got so many opportunities right around you, like even food, right? Everything's premade and um, you've got 400 organizations. So I think you're forced to kind of think about like, what do I want life to be like? And maybe it's after a couple of months you're like, all right, I'm in a routine. I'm, I got it. I'm a little bored. Like, what do I like to do? What's in the area? What can I do? So I think that's a great point that you almost have to work at it more than you ever thought you would because it doesn't just fall on your lap the way it might've here, where everybody's in the same boat, everybody's involved in different things, exiting people and all the cool things they're doing. Yeah. Yeah. I remember my first apartment, um, I got, and this was, I lived on campus for four years straight. Um, I got in there, we got set up, family left, blah, blah, blah. It was just me and I closed the door and I'm like, put in the dorms. We all left the door open. Can I leave the door open here? I was like, no man, you can't do that.

Brian Bossick (28:48):

But it was a realization that like, okay, so things are kind of up to me now. If I want to figure out what I want to do, I got to find it. Yeah. Yeah.

Carlos Martinez (28:58):

And, and the cool thing is that's also another opportunity for growth and development. It may be new area. So it could be a hobby that you always said you never had time to do in college. Right. If you'll go start drawing again or taking pictures of something so you could still find meaning in a lot of different things and still continue to grow. So it's again, it's just another level of life. It is. No, and I like it.

Brian Bossick (29:19):

Yeah. Cause I think it's that idea that, and don't be afraid that if the first thing doesn't take right, you go to like a drawing class. Like I think I'm done with this, but then you stumble into ceramics and you're like, I can actually do this. So

Carlos Martinez (29:30):

I totally agree with that. So again, another question that, that we had as we kind of chatted about what, what speak with you about is, uh, ways that they can feel in control as they're transitioning out. Yeah. So sometimes it's like you're always just waiting. You're waiting for the job to accept you, to grant you an interview for the apartment complex to accept your, you know, you as a new tenant. Are there things that, that students or people in general can do to find a sense of control through throughout all of this? Yeah. Good question. Um, I think part of that too is like you put [inaudible]

Brian Bossick (30:09):

many of those to do's out there as you can, right? And you want to check them off as you do them. So even if you don't get the response right away, you've done it. So you've put this out there, you've done these many applications, you've submitted your application for the apartment. That's a, that's a goal. Um, but I think the other part is that you're, you're still involved in life right here. And so focusing on that, right? Focusing on, all right, so I still got class, right? I still have my friends here. And you could sit obsessively in front of your computer, refreshing, like your email, you know, but that will just drive you crazy. So how do you then like focus on life and things and while you're making kind of small steps, um, we talk about smart goals a lot and they're kind of the ones that are measurable, right?

Brian Bossick (30:50):

Like, so how do you break down a big task like finding a job into those kind of small things that are measurable and achievable. And if you're checking off that list, then then you have some of that control. So like I've done all of this, all these things are out there. I've waited, do I want to go back to the beginning and do some more searching? I can do that and then kind of do that. And so basically, I can't think of the good metaphor right now, but you're putting a bunch of this stuff out there waiting for it, waiting for it to stick and something is going to stick. And the more active in those small ways you are at will

Speaker 7 (31:18):

[inaudible]. Yeah. And [inaudible]

Carlos Martinez (31:22):

you know, overall using resources will be another key, key aspect of, of, of this phase, uh, of, of your transitions. Um, earlier you mentioned that they can call the Career Center. We know they can contact the counseling center if they want to speak 21. But what about when you've graduated, when you've graduated, let's say you, you still are feeling anxiety, um, mental health and depression is becoming a much more accepted topic. So you're probably seeing it more in the news every day. I know I do when I check check in. Um, what are some ways they could get connected? Let's say if you're in the grand Rapids area and you do think you need to speak with a counselor, are there any resources you'd recommend? Yeah, I would say I'm probably a couple. Um, so you could, um, so our counseling center, we, we only kind of work with current students. Um,

Brian Bossick (32:06):

we have a huge resource of people in the area and so they could always call us and say, you know, I graduated, this is where I live. Who do you recommend? Um, on our website we have a provider kind of finder that people can use and it's all based in city and it links to all the websites. They're all providers we've met with and it describes their practices. So folks can always go to like the counseling centers website, um, gvsu.edu backslash council and look under resources and they could search for people in the area. Um, also if it's somebody we've worked with in the past, they can call us and we'll be glad to work with them and help them connected to cause we might know them even better. Um, the other two things I was thinking about, uh, depending where you're employed, um, most places you work like in their HR plate are going to have some, some type of employee assistance program.

Brian Bossick (32:51):

So checking in with that to kind of see like, Hey, if I'm looking for counseling, who are you, who are you all affiliated with and who do you connect people with? Yeah, yeah. And then I would say psychology today. Um, if you go to their website, they have find a find a psychologist. It's a great resource actually. Um, it's, yes, so outside of like this area in Michigan, that's where I refer all my students to. So if you're moving to the East side, um, you can put in your zip code, you can put in the type of provider you want, um, the type of degree, how many years in service, and it's an awesome resource. So I think those would be really good places to start. Yeah. And so, you know, my, my wife works for the mental health foundation of West Michigan and so she, she'd killed me if I didn't plug them.

Carlos Martinez (33:35):

But the, uh, the, the thing is with w with all these transitions, there's also a big stigma, right? When you see my, my shirt on the picture, I have a little bean I showed, it's all about breaking the stigma about mental health. And I know it's, it looks a little different in, in, uh, in a bunch of different communities in Latin America. A lot of times I heard it multiple times in my family. Oh, why are you going to a psychologist? You're not crazy. Right? And so it's okay if you don't want to share with anyone that you're going, yeah, right. But little by little, I think it is, it is important to, for everyone to become aware that if you do think you need to speak to someone, even if it's just a check in one time and you never go back again, it could be of a huge benefit for you or for a friend of yours if you, if you get them connected.

 

Brian Bossick (32:26):

Absolutely. He, even if you find that at some point in this you just feel stuck and you don't know why that that's a good reason to go talk to somebody, get unstuck, however you define stock, if it's anxiety, if you're tired, if you're fatigued or you're just feeling cranky, like go talk to someone and just get unstuck. I love that. Yeah. Okay. Uh, that you have anything else to add? Megan?

Megan Riksen (34:42):

I guess one other note I had written down that I wanted to make sure we mentioned today, um, is especially for those of you out there who don't have something yet, I think that's when the anxiety is probably the most heightened when you're really uncertain of even what that very first day after you step out of Grand Valley looks like is to not put too much pressure on finding your dream job or that very perfect next step. But just to think what is my first destination? That's some language we're using a lot now in the Career Center so that you've maybe takes a little bit of that pressure off to say, all right, I'm going to have a first destination and then I can go from there. I can incorporate my hobbies and passions there. I can do all these other things to um, have a fulfilling life and career. But right now I'm going to focus just kind of on that first piece without worrying about, you know, the dream. So that was

Brian Bossick (35:38):

just one random thought I had. I really liked that because I think in a lot of ways, isn't that the goal for every kind of student, right? So whether it's your dream job, where it's a first destination, chances are you're going to learn from it and figure out what do you want to do next? Whether it stay there, whether it's look at something else. So I think that's excellent. Yeah. And the focus of your career, that first destination job may allow you to try out some skills, try some things, but also then build your personal life up, right? So I think everything's can have a different focus and you can kind of look at it that way too.

Carlos Martinez (36:08):

Well, thank you so much for joining us, Brian. Uh, everyone, thank you for listening. We're, we're in the description of this episode. We're going to post a lot of the links that, that Brian was mentioning, the psychology today, mental health foundation counseling center at Grand Valley. Uh, for those of you who want it, uh, it's March. So we'll, we'll be back for one more episode in about four weeks. Take care and see you all soon.