{Intro Music}

Carlos Martinez (03:32):

All right. So hello again everyone. Thanks for joining us once again. And just like last time, if we're doing this right, this should probably be the fifth episode of the Work Like a Laker Podcast. So, we actually just created the name, so it took us three episodes. You know, sometimes you just have to get started where you're at and then you'll figure things out along the way. That's, that's kind of what we're doing with this podcast. Our guest today is someone very special, a big fan of the West Michigan community, but also we're a big fan of her here at the Career Center. Cindy Brown. Cindy is the Executive Director of Hello West Michigan. So, I won't say too much about it, but could you kind of just introduce yourself? Who are you, where you're from, and then maybe a little more about the organizations that you're connected with. Because I know it's more than just Hello West Michigan.

Cindy Brown (04:22):

All right, thank you Carlos and Megan, thanks for having me. Right. So, Hello West Michigan is an organization, it's an a, it's an initiative. It's, it's an employer driven initiative employer funded initiative here in West Michigan. So back in two [inaudible] Where's the mic? Right there. Okay. So, just so when you look at us, still stay there. Yeah. Sorry. Okay. What do you want me to do?

 

Carlos Martinez (05:00)

Start over. What do you want me to, alright, so we're not editing. This is how it goes. [inaudible] (laughing) Awesome. Just kind of move over a little bit and then you could just look now you can look at us and talk into the mic. The,

Cindy Brown (05:01):

Those should've done that from the beginning. [inaudible] The chairs. You need the [inaudible] I needed the rolly chair. Yeah, exactly. So, Hello West Michigan employer driven, employer funded employer supported. So back in 2008, a lot of our companies were not seeing candidates apply for positions internally as well as some positions coming from outside the area. And so they were wondering what was going on. They didn't know if it was just their departments. This was a group of Chief Information Officers in the area, so they went back to their companies, found out it was more than just it. A lot of companies, there was just a disconnect between the candidates and the companies. So they did a lot of research. A lot of focus groups the companies all put money into a pot so they could do this research. And what they found, they found really two things.

Cindy Brown (05:50):

Number one, people do not know Grand Rapids or West Michigan. And then second, a significant other plays a huge role, a major role in whether or not somebody will stay if they relocate to the area. And so, Hello West Michigan was born. We started, the organization started in January of 2010. We're just over eight years old officially. And really the, the, the focus in what we work on everyday are three things. Number one, to educate people on West Michigan. So, second largest city, Grand Rapids. We have 13 counties in West Michigan, so we're up to Lake County down to Allegan County. So gosh, and everywhere in between, probably about an hour, hour and a half drive at the most to any of our counties from downtown Grand Rapids and 30,000 payroll companies. And really, people don't understand that a lot. I know there's, there's my fun fact, right?

Cindy Brown (06:45):

So there's 30,000 companies in West Michigan. And the other part of that fact is 24 of them have over 2,000 employees here.

 

Megan Riksen (06:48):

Oh my goodness. That's so encouraging. I'm just thinking for our students who are listening to think, Oh my goodness. So there's so much opportunity to guarantee here.

 

Cindy Brown (07:03):

Absolutely. And there's a guarantee that you're probably going to be working for a company that's wow. You have no idea who they are. Right? So you have to do your research and find and look and search and yeah, because there's so many different companies here and you can, you can get to them quickly. Another fact about West Michigan average commute times under 25 minutes. So you don't specifically have to look just in Grand Rapids or just in Rockford or just in Zeeland or just in Muskegon. You can, you can live, work, whatever your choices are and still have that smaller commute time than going to a larger city.

Cindy Brown (07:34):

So that's first is the education. Second is we want to attract the interested. So there might be some Lakers, they're most likely stay. Right? We know that that fact, we know that fact, but some Lakers might leave and might go somewhere else. And what we want to do is we want to try to, to, to, to plant the seed to get those individuals thinking about coming back to West Michigan because there's careers here and there's a great life here, right? Right. Third piece is connections. So we all know that. So, and we're going to talk, I believe a lot about connections, but connections are key. So we have 80 companies that support us and if we have candidates that we know are coming in, whether they're a significant other or a boomerang, we want to get them connected with our companies that are supporting us, but also companies that are in West Michigan. So we have a really cool process about doing that as well.

Carlos Martinez (08:27):

And, and you know a great way to start getting folks interested or, or, or connected to companies in the area would be through internships specifically for those who are still in college or maybe coming back into the workforce in our area. After some time out recently, your last interview was, was Jamie, who you know very well, who, who served as your intranet, who listened to the last episode, you know, how often are you hosting interns?

 

Cindy Brown (09:00):

 We host inter, we try to host an intern every season, so what we call fall. And then also spring, winter, and then summer. But the interesting thing is if a student comes in, and so right around now with our current interns, we're having conversations with them to see if what they, what they've done is exciting. Are there other projects they think that they could take on if they wanted to stay another semester?

 

 

Cindy Brown (09:19):

So, I can't guarantee that we'll always have an opening every, every season. Because someone might stay an extra semester with us, but, but, but we do two different things. So when Jamie, Jamie stayed with us, was with us the first semester she focused on certain things and then we sat and talked to her and said, okay, now you know us. What's going on? What do you want to do? What's what, what else would you like? Or what did you notice that we're lacking that maybe might be a really fun, cool project for you. So she did part of what she was doing, but then she also added on some other responsibilities for that second semester. That's great. That flexibility is, yeah, pretty cool. I bet that's pretty cool. I mean it's cool for us to write it and an internship has to be win-win, right?

Cindy Brown (09:59):

So from our perspective as an employer, and I work with Grand Valley and the other colleges in town to educate employers on internships, but the big thing is it has to be a win win. We want someone that is going to gain a lot of a lot of new skills, but we want somebody that's also going to be able to be marketable as they leave. That's my one and only goal is that they are marketable when they leave because I can't, I can't fund, a full time employee after every internship. So, they're going to have to go somewhere else. And then from a student's perspective, it's, it's what are the, what are their expectations? We want to match that. So to make sure it's a win win.

 

Megan Riksen (10:35):

Good. Do you find that students do a good job of being able to articulate what they're hoping to get out of an internship? And do you have any advice?  I think that we all need to work on that.

I would agree. I would agree with you.

 

Cindy Brown (10:53):

I think employers need to articulate what they're looking for and what types of things that they're looking for and what's important to them. I think that that's, that's first, and then from the student perspective, we all want to offer advice. So they're getting advice. Either they're not getting any advice or they're there or they're coming or they're talking to their unemployed roommates, right. And get right. Which sometimes isn't the best advice, but sometimes they forget to come here at the career services center, which is not good. Right? Or they're hearing it from different people out in the, you should do this, you should do this. So I think unfortunately a lot of times their expectations are what people have told them they should be and they forget about, honestly, if I'm going to take that time to juggle work, family life, school homework, and an internship and maybe even another job, what do I want out of that 15, 20, 25, 30 hours, whatever that internship is and so to number one, they have to believe it and understand what it is and then second then that that being able to articulate it to an employer and say, this is what I want to get out of this internship.

Cindy Brown (11:53):

I think. I think right now we're not all good at it, but I think we can get better at it.

 

 

Carlos Martinez (11:56):

Cool. Yeah. All right, so, so once the student has a rough idea in terms of the type of internship they're interested in and the employer has a pretty solid idea in terms of what type of intern they're looking for, how does that process look like? Right. You, you've had experiences with different businesses, organizations. What are some things they should look out for as they prepare to, to engage in that process. So, they've already gotten a job or they're looking there, they know they want an internship, they have a rough idea of the type of internship. What, what happens next? What's the process?

Cindy Brown (12:27):

Well it's, you know, it's supply and demand. I look at things very simply. It's supply and demand. The supply of college students, if an employer is looking to hire them is here. Right? So, so of course, Grand Valley, they, if they're a student at Grand Valley, they should be looking at Laker jobs.

 

Megan Riksen (12:48):

 Is it still actually is now handshake. Okay. So is it, is it same way of yep. Everything, everything will work similarly. Just better proved way improved way more user friendly, user friendly.

 

Cindy Brown (12:57)

 Great user experience. Awesome. So, and congratulations to, to Grand Valley for taking the time and the effort to research fund and be able to offer something like that. Because once again, if this is the supply side, we have to do everything in our power to make sure that our, our students find jobs. And then, you know, I have employers make sure they're posting, but then from a student perspective, start looking, I mentioned early on 30,000 payrolled companies here in West Michigan. You can't look at positions by name recognition. There are so many, or if you do, you're going to limit what you look at. So, from a student's perspective, look at what the job entitles and not just the job description or the job name or the job title, but look at the different types of qualifications and see what transfer skills you have.

Carlos Martinez (13:45):

Yeah, great. Yeah. You know, and, and for current students, one thing that I always like to tell them is that you don't always need class credit for an internship. Right. And so I know some students who think that because it's not a requirement or because it's not approved by the program, that it's not worth it when it can still be a great connection and it, you still want to look at it as professional development at Grand Valley specifically, you want to check in with your program. I know some programs have a set of, of locations lined up for you for many other programs. You actually find them on your own and then you get it approved by by a specific person within the department. And so come check in with us at the Career Center. We can help you kind of figure out what that is if you're not too sure at the moment.

Megan Riksen (14:30):

Yeah. Cindy, could you talk to us a little bit about what you're looking for specifically when, let's say you get an application for an open internship position, you're looking at a resume, what's going to be exciting to see on there? I guess even what might be something that would turn you off a little bit, your resume, and then in addition to the resume, what are some of those practices, those other things that some of your stellar candidates have done? Maybe not even applying at Hello West Michigan, but just other places you've, you've seen candidates applying?

 

Cindy Brown (15:00):

Well, first off from from the, the the, I guess the, the excitement factor is do they really want to work there? Yeah. You know? Because there's times when you hear, if people, when you've asked them why are, why are you doing an internship? Are you completing an internship? What's caught your eye? Well, I was told I have to have an internship to graduate. I was told I should do an internship to help me as I'm, you know, that doesn't get you really excited to bring that person. Yes. That's the part that you know, what do you want to do? And so if a, if a student can go back to our articulation, if a, if a student can share why they want to do this, this is, this is, you know, this is the time now where at a click of a button, I mean I joke with my husband, I joke all the time. We always call it Mr. Google and anything happens. We're like ask Mr. Google and within a second us old people can find the answer. Therefore we know you could as an, as a student, you can research what my organization does.

Cindy Brown (15:55):

Yes. And you can, you can legitimately have a good conversation with me and say at least at least ask questions as good, solid questions to find out more to see how it would match. But if you show some interest in what we're trying to do we're a nonprofit organization. Hello West Michigan. I mentioned what we're doing, attracting talent, but show me, tell me why I don't, Oh my God, I love, I love Grand Rapids. That, that's great. And I want you to love it and I want you to be here and talk about it. I want you to do it, but why, and, and you know, Jamie's a great example where she came into our organization thinking once she graduates, she was going to leave and changed her mind during that time. Mentioned that and changed her mind. Right? And there was no, we don't know, wants to stay.

Cindy Brown (16:40):

We didn't push her. We didn't talk, nothing like that. None of that. But she chose to do that because during this internship she had things she had to do. You know, she, she did, she wrote she's, there's good content that we had them. Right. Whether it was a blog or whether it was a testimonial for somebody, but she took it upon herself to go do stuff and, and so then she could write about it because of course you've done it, you've got a better story. So there's a lot that she took on. And I think that's a good tip is are there things you can do to take on more or show a of a stronger interest in that organization? Now that's hard off a resume unless, you, unless you're able to talk about all the different things that you've done through all my years of recruiting, everything on campus, recruiting, everything. What I find is that people just can't sell it. And they, in, in myself included when I needed to write a resume, I know I struggled because I said, that's just what you do at the job. Instead of saying, no, this is what I actually did. And being able to, to write that down and you guys can help with that so you can help with that. That resume writing. Yeah.

Carlos Martinez (17:50):

 I like how you're just plugging us at any chance. We appreciate that. But you have to, right? Yeah. Supply and demand. If a company wants a student, they should come to you. Yeah. And if the student wants to be prepared, you should come to see we're here to help everyone. That's how it is.

 

 

Megan Riksen (18:00):

The Career Center plus Mr. Google. Right. Exactly right.

 

Carlos Martinez (18:15):

 And one thing I really liked you mentioned specifically about Jamie is that she was stepping up to the plate, figuring out what else she can do. And something that, that will happen with many of the students that I meet with is that they'll do some of the good work, and I tell them, you've done the tough part already. It's really just about writing it down now. Right. And they struggled so much like you mentioned. So maybe a good pro tip is, as you start picking up extra projects, it could be at an internship, we'll have a student organization, we'll have a classroom; Start writing those down because they're there will come a time down the line when you need it.

Cindy Brown (18:41):

You know, might be in in five months, might be in a, in a year from now, but it'll make the process a lot easier for you as you begin updating these things. Absolutely. You know what I like, it's good to have a scholarship on your resume. It's great that you want something or did whatever, whatever the reasoning and how you did it. What, what I would like to see is give me some bullet points from your internship or anything you've done, if you've worked here, if you've worked on campus, at the bookstore, if you've worked in in food, whatever you've done, you have done, you have done bullet points, at least three or four bullet points of things that, whether it's dependable on time, covering shifts, whatever it is to show that, that you're assertive and you're excited and you want to be there. Whatever it is you, you can come up with three or four bullet points about every job that you've had.

Cindy Brown (19:26):

I remember when subway came around and everybody started writing on their, you know, on their resume sub or sandwich artists, right. Job title. Right. Okay, great. That's awesome. What a brilliant idea to do that because it gets you laughing at what does that mean? And then if you can see what the detail, you know, that helps an employer as you're first starting out now as you go along, you have a job description where you can use a lot of that information, but just starting out whenever you do really helps. Yeah, I agree.

Carlos Martinez (19:59):

Do you think that when it comes to connecting with employers, you've attended some of the career fairs and the best rider events. Are there any tips, tricks, and I know, I know for those of you listening, the career fair did pass, but guess what, there's another one coming up next semester. How do you think they should approach that process from, from an employer perspective? What do you find in a successful person when they're contacting you at a career fair style setting?

 

Cindy Brown (20:32):

Don't be afraid. All right? So we fear the unknown. If you prepare, then, then that fear goes away. Be anxious, be excited, be a little nervous about how, you know, just making sure that you're put together and all of that. But, but don't fear it. We're, we're just people, you know, and we just want to talk to you, especially at a career fair. A career fair is a walking billboard that that's, you're not gonna hear any bads, right? Was just, I'm going to promote the heck out of my company to plant a seed. So as you go back, you start thinking, is this a great opportunity for me? So, you always want to limit how many, you know, companies that you think you want to go for. Go through, you know, go see. You don't have to go see all 400+ probably, right? You don't have to go see that many. Find the ones go through and look at it, but then keep your time available so that the ones that are very exciting the ones that show excitement at the booth that you say, gosh, this might be something I just want to ask questions about. Keep, keep some time available so you can go have conversations with them, but you, you want to go up there and gosh, from my recruiting day, so I was a campus recruiter for 12 years, something like that. Yeah. People would come up to our booth all the time. Whoa, what do you got for me? I'm graduating in December.

Megan Riksen (21:39):

Yeah. Like what could you possibly have as a job opening?

Cindy Brown (21:43):

And here I am, I'm graduating with a marketing degree. What do you have for me? Hmm. Okay. Yes. Well, a better way would have been even now, and I think the best thing about the internet and the smart phones and all that is you could step away in the other room and look and just look at that company and say, Oh, they do this. Hey, I read that you do this. I heard that you hire a lot of Lakers. Can you tell me why? And then that starts, because then we want to talk. So now we're chatting about and we're giving you some tips. So now that conversation starts. So being able to maybe ask an intriguing, intriguing question right at the beginning. Yeah. Yeah.

Megan Riksen (22:14):

Good, good. So then once we're hoping that by this point in the semester we've given our students tons of chances to interact with employers, both through our career fairs, our smaller events, and maybe just through job shadows or things that students have taken upon themselves to do on their own. A very common question is, alright, now I've met this person. Maybe I've chatted for three minutes, maybe I chatted for a whole afternoon during a job shadow. But how do I keep in touch with this person? What does that look like?

Cindy Brown (22:44):

Absolutely. So if you're, you're in the process of trying to get an internship or you're a student so you know, you've, you've got that end in sight with an internship or a full time position. There's, there's times when you can work full time. There's times when you can work part time. So knowing that number one, knowing if you want to credit or if you're looking for maybe a 10 hours or if you want to try and another job shadow. Having all of those options, knowing that there's options for you to be able to offer to this person. If you like that company and you really liked that company, start talking about internships. If you're, if you're eligible and there's opportunities for that, but start talking about it. What do I need to do? How would you, what would you recommend? How would you recommend that I prepare?

Cindy Brown (23:22):

Who would you recommend I would talk to? Because you already have that in, right? And I want to talk about the end in a second, but I want to keep going on this. But if you, as you are talking to them, when you, when you, if you start asking the right questions, they want to help you. We all live in West Michigan, right? So especially West Michigan, we want to help people, people elsewhere do too. But if someone comes in and says, gosh, the student job shadowed with me, I might not be my department, but would you have a chance Megan, to talk to him? Well, of course you do. Right? You're going to go do that for your coworker as well as trying to help a young adult find their way or find options for something down the road. So that's first. And then as you continue to keep that relationship going with them, don't put all your ducks in one basket.

Cindy Brown (24:07):

Right. Don't do that because there's, you just never know. You just never know. So keep looking because what you're looking for probably matches up with a lot of other companies. So start asking questions and they may, you know, they may recommend somebody outside of the company too. That's a colleague that knows that they're looking for people.

 

Megan Riksen (24:20):

 Yeah, I think that's a great tip to, you don't just have to stop with the one person that you know. Right. But ask them, who else should I be talking to? I love that advice.

 

Cindy Brown (24:40)

Informational interviews, informational interviews with the key. Because if you can find out about the company and get a, get a piece of the culture and find out a little bit about the culture, it's not always about pay. It's absolutely not always about pay. Because I know people that are paid a good wage, they could probably go somewhere else and make more, but they're probably make work in more hours and they want more, better flexibility or they have better benefits and, and you know, or whatever those other things are.

 

So it's not always about the money. But prior to that from a previous question, as you're preparing and deciding what you want to do, you gotta figure out what success is. What does success mean to you? Is it a 40 hour work week, a 30 hour work week working from home money? What do you value the your title, are you in a suit all day or are you, are you casual dress? You have to figure out what, what success means. And because you hear so many times that students don't know about going to a college degree, you're going into skilled trades or manufacturing or agribusiness or whatever. Well, you know, they, they don't have a good reputation, but if they pay well, why wouldn't you go that way? Right? So that's why, you know, it's, it's, it's our job as, as Hello West Michigan even to help students here and young adults that are in West Michigan understand more about West Michigan. So from a, from an education perspective, did you even know half far away there are some of these jobs available?

 

Megan Riksen (25:50):

Sure. Great.

Carlos Martinez (25:58):

And organizations like yours are doing a great job. And we know that firsthand because the majority of our graduates end up staying in West Michigan at least for that first six months to a year after graduating. And we're talking to tons of students who are coming from Chicago, Detroit, and a bunch of other smaller, mid sized places around the Midwest. Everything you just said ties back to the idea of internship, right? So when we're trying to figure out what, what those values are, you do that through internships? I, I remember my, my mother-in-law works at a, at a nursing home and there was a student who came in for her first internship, had never seen blood, never seen, never seen the actual type of work they'd have to do as a nurse until that internship. And she didn't make it through, through a whole semester.

Carlos Martinez (26:51):

And while, you know, it's unfortunate that student found out earlier on, it could have happened three, four years down the line after they committed so much time and energy. And that's why again, we emphasize so much the idea of getting connected in some way, shape or form. Right. Hello West Michigan does something pretty cool actually. So, so they do things like intern connect. I know there's an activity happening during Thanksgiving break as well. Well, you know, Thanksgiving's coming up now. Could you maybe share a bit about that one and then we'll go into some of the other things you'll do for the interns?

Cindy Brown (27:24):

Right, so we’re pretty excited for this. So if there's alumni that are listening or those that are graduating in December, once again, Career Services is your first place to go. But in a, in a, in addition to that too, especially if you're out of town we have what we call Rethink West Michigan and we are going to be in our seventh year, it's held at five 30 to eight at the Bob downtown Grand Rapids. And we also have five other locations this year. Yeah, we do. Yeah. Cause cause one's not enough. One's not enough. So let's, yeah, let's have more. So we're going to have one probably in Saugatuck area, Saugatuck, Holland area and then also Hastings, Michigan and the downtown Grand Rapids at the Bob. And then we're also going to have Muskegon, Fremont, up in Newaygo County and then also Luddington over in Mason County.

Cindy Brown (28:12):

So we have this event, we've been promoting it since summer, so we've been promoting it since July. We have a lot of people that leave West Michigan and they might want to come back. And of course they're back usually for the holidays. And that's the funnest night of the year to be in town is the biggest bar night of the year. So why not come see us from 5:30- 8 p.m., so all those locations are hosting employers. And it gives you an opportunity once again just to talk and have conversations in, in the 60 or the 6 years we've done this, we've had over 60 hires. We've had people actually get jobs, we've had some real estate and those direct connection. Yeah. Yeah. Is that crazy? You're sitting at a bar and you're having a drink with someone and you're able to have a conversation. Yeah. Yes. And it's, it's amazing how quickly it can happen. So, we do allow people that are graduating in December, if they want to come, they can come to those events as well as any alum that are in the area.

Carlos Martinez (29:04):

Awesome. Yeah. Nice. And what about the Intern Connect

 

Cindy Brown (29:08):

The intern Intern Connect is fantastic. So we've got interns all around Grand Rapids, West Michigan during the summer from colleges here, as well as colleges from, from outside of the state and outside of the area. And so our goal with this whole West Michigan Intern Connect is let's have them meet, let's have a meet once again, second largest city is, do people get downtown? Do they know what's, what's here? Do they, do they know what it's like outside of their company, whether they have one intern at the company or a hundred, do they know people outside of those, those organizations? So, we call it day in the park. It's usually in June. I'm downtown here in front of the Ford Museum and it's, it's just a couple of hours. It's fun. There's food trucks. Our companies are there. You can talk to company representatives there. It's, it's crazy. All of our career services from all the different colleges here or there.

Cindy Brown (29:58):

So people have an opportunity to talk and find out what next, what else? Just tell me about your company which even from a, you know, it's great to get it from a recruiter perspective, but it's also, I think it's a little bit better to get it from the another interns perspective as a student.

 

Megan Riksen (30:10):

 Absolutely. And that's something we always recommend. Talk to your fellow students. They're a part of your network. Absolutely. Absolutely. Working doesn't have to be this big scary beast that you're trying to tackle that it's just talking to strangers all the time. Exact your network is the people you're just already interacting with.

 

Cindy Brown (30:25)

 Exactly. So I can throw out a scenario which I said I wanted to chat about a little bit. If you're outside of West Michigan right now and it's November and it's cold and not just here, but in Chicago or wherever. Right? So it's dark, it gets dark after 4 p.m. now. So we know it. It's just different than the summers. We know that. So you're in Chicago, you had been coming home every weekend for in Grand Rapids and you're, you're trying to apply for positions. Well, if people don't see a tie to Michigan, they may not be first on the pile. And that's realistic. So what we do isn't that connection piece of what we're trying to do is, is get people connected with our employers where we find the, the biggest ask I can possibly, someone can ask me that does all these phone calls is, can you connect me with? Can you connect me with? Well here, this whole conversation's been about connections. If you intern, take the time to meet anybody you possibly can. Right? Career Dervices. What do you guys do half of your time?

Cindy Brown (31:28):

Talk to employers. You hear about culture.

 

Megan Riksen (31:35):

 You have a whole team of people that are working with students most of the time just working with our employer partners.

 

Cindy Brown (31:42):

 Exactly. Yeah, so there's possible connections there. There's possible connections. Any students that interns that might, that people that you know in your classroom or whatever that might know people from the company you might be interested in. There's connections with faculty members, businesses know faculty, right? There's connections. If you go to the West Michigan intern connect, there's connections. If you go to AMA, American Marketing Association, any other club, any other fraternity, sorority, any of those things, it's connections. So as you start to build your connections, you are, you are hands above the people that are outside of the area that have zip, for connections. Plus, if your parents are here or connections or family members or friends that are fellow alumni.

Cindy Brown (32:17):

I mean back in the day when I interviewed, when we used to write out, you know, the, the letters and the mail and stuff, all that. No one knows what I'm talking about. My paper and valency weighted paper. Yeah, no smudges. But when the first, I remember I graduated from Aquinas. I left. I came back. I remember the CEO of Spartan stores was an Aquinas alum. I found him in our alumni book. Yeah. I wrote them a letter and just said, I'm a fellow graduate. I'm here. Any tips, whatever. He didn't have a job at that time for me or anything like that, but he gave me tips. He stayed in contact with me. That is so cool. And as an alum, if I'm, if I'm a Saint at Aquinas, I want to talk to Saints. My second is, I want to talk to the alumni in the, in the area, if you're a Laker, always a Laker, right? So, those connections are huge. If you do choose to use them because the people outside are trying to get back in, they don't have those connections.

Carlos Martinez (33:12):

Great. And I know we're, we're speaking in the context of of students or recent graduates, but in other, another population that we see in our office are folks who maybe left Michigan 10 years ago, you know, seven, eight years ago, sometimes more and they want to move back. They don't, they don't feel they have the family connections. They don't feel they have a real connection to organizations. So we'll have alumni clubs, but everything you just said also applies to that audience as well. Do you have any unique advice to that population? I, some of them have families and they want to move back to Grand Rapids, but they feel that they feel there are so many obstacles. How would you approach that?

Cindy Brown (33:52):

First, is is HelloWestMichigan.com drop the resume. That's first and foremost because we were the only, we're one of a kind around the country. We talk to people. I allow people to that I will have conversations with them on the phone and they schedule it. So, I'm talking to people to find out if they're a recent alum, I'm telling them about you guys. All right. I mean, that's right. We all know that. And so, so however we take that and whatever route we do with that, the, the event and Thanksgiving Eve is, is gigantic for us. It's a great way to get those connections started. But the key to all of this is letting people know what you're looking for. Yes. Not our parents are all awesome, right? Are our family members, our friends, they all want to brag about us. Yup. But it's gotta be more than, Hey, I want Carlos, I want you to talk to my, my son, he's, he's, he's a good kid.

Cindy Brown (34:41):

He's, he's going to be a Marketinggrad. He's great at what he does. Do you know any companies that might want him? Well, come on. That is so hard. I get that request a few times a semester. You think that is so unfair. I know. You know people, I know you're really connected. I have 4,000 people on my LinkedIn. Yes, I'm connected, but I can't do anything with that. Tell me what you're looking for. Hey, she's looking for this. She's looking for a marketing opportunity, or better yet, let's just have a quick conversation and find out from the person and say, “Hey, that initial connection is fantastic, but don't rely on your parents.” Don't rely on those connections to sell you. You have to sell yourself and tell people, but give them an idea of what you're looking for so they can at least do it.

Cindy Brown (35:25):

They can just pop it up, you know, and just give it an easy, here you go.

 

Megan Riksen (35:32):

That I would say that almost goes back to what we were talking about in the last podcast with the elevator pitch. Be ready to talk about who you are, right, what you're all about, what your skills are and where you want to go. Right. Because exactly like you said, if you can't tell me what that really means. Okay. Marketing. That's pretty vague, right? There's a lot you can do in marketing. Right? I am not able to connect you as well if I'm just vaguely thinking about marketing as opposed to if I'm able to say, all right, you want to do digital marketing for an agency? Okay. Now that's something to kind of hold onto.

 

Cindy Brown (36:12):

Right, exactly. Yeah. And your neighbors know people and whoever, wherever you're at, people know people. And so people know if there's opportunities open. So if that's the case, they can at least then say, Oh my gosh, Megan is this and you, and let me connect to two of you. Yes. You know, and, and then, you know, and it'll take it further than just, Hey, yeah, my so-and-so could, you know people. Right. Yeah. That's good.

Carlos Martinez (36:33):

Whoa. Cindy we, we appreciate all the time. Well, no, that's what I was about to say. I know the much of the core piece of things that we wanted to discuss is over, but, but we enjoy you a lot so we can keep chatting. Is there anything else that you want to add maybe that we haven't chatted about so far about this whole process about connecting with Hello West Michigan that you'd like people to know?

Cindy Brown (37:01):

You know, I think overall just keep your options open, keep your options open. Don't get caught up in stereotypes. Don't get caught up in the stereotypes that the generation Y the millennials, they do this, they want this, they want that, they want this. Because I love the new generation that wants flexibility. Cause for all these years I've wanted flexibility. I love not being in a suit today. I love knowing] to dress the way I need to for my clients or my customers, whoever. So, you can't get caught up that you can't get caught up in what people are telling you. You, you, you want, well, millennials, they don't want this. They aren't going to stay. They're not going to, I have someone that works with me that's been with me five years and she's doing fantastic and she is a younger adult, falls in the millennial. You know range, but if I looked at all the stereotypes, she shouldn't have stayed more than a year. Right. And here she hasn't. She's got a great career and she's doing wonderful things. Adding on responsibility just are all these ones, right? So if we both would have bought into that, she would, she would had to give up her car, right? Cause no one, no millennials have cars. So she would've had to do that. But it's not the case. So keep your options open. I've worked for four companies that there's no possible way I would have ever, no way in college where I've ever thought that I would ever, I don't even, I wouldn't, they wouldn't even know the names. Two of them weren't even around. Right, so how do you just keep your options open and, and be true to yourself that you can be, you're able to sell what, what, who you are and be able to talk about it.

Cindy Brown (38:35):

And when I say selll, that should be, no, that's wrong. That should be second nature. It shouldn't even be sales. When people talk to you, you should be able to confidently say who you are because no one knows you better than you. And you should be able to just say, this is, this is me. And if you don't know, that's okay too. That's absolutely okay. There's, there's, you know, there's, there's, there's room for that growth where you can figure that out. That's not an issue. But use your internship. You know, I interned at Disney and I'm gonna tell ya, you know, I, I went there on purpose. I went there, I applied because it was at that time the best place to learn customer service. And you, you know, there's things I joke about with people. The number one question asked is, when's the three o'clock parade?

Cindy Brown (39:16):

Well, I was on Main Street. I had to answer that question. You learn, sorry. You learn when you can be sarcastic when you can't be. I learned more than anything to be on stage. So I get complimented all the time. People say, “Cindy, you are the most passionate person I know. You are the best person for this job,” but, but when I move on, shouldn't the next person be just as passionate because we live here and we want to talk about West Michigan. Yeah. So, I hear that a lot with people too, when they're looking at jobs and that, wow, you know, I want to sell, but I only want to sell a product that I believe. Well then don't even bother that. You shouldn't even, that shouldn't even be part of that conversation because you're, you don't even go, don't interview with them then if you don't believe in that product, go. Right. And you know, so I think the big thing is, is take some of the things you learned from your internship. Absolutely. Or if there's things done wrong and it's a, and it's not a solid internship, take that information with you to, to keep in your back of your head. So when you have an internship program, you do not do that with other people. Right. So

Carlos Martinez (40:13):

I have nothing else to add. I think that's, that's, that's, that's energized. Exhausted you. Yeah, no, that, that, that's, that's a great way to, to wrap things up. And, you know, everything you said also lines up really well with the conversation about values earlier or your values will change as you grow. Right. The values I have today that I'm married, I'm a father, are different from the values I had when I was fresh out of college, and it's not that it's a, it's a good or a bad thing, it's just that it's different. And understanding who you are and how you're changing will have to be a key piece of this product and, and embracing the fact that it probably will change in some way, shape, or form as you kind of grow in your professional trajectory.

 

Cindy Brown (40:30)

Absolutely. And that's okay.

 

Carlos Martinez (40:37)

Yeah. All right. Well, thank you. So again, Oh, I thought I should've done early now. All right. Thank you again and yeah, we will, we will see you all next time.